Propane, Gaseous Gold!

[hex0rz]

:banghead:

 

So, been trying to hold off on getting propane hoping the price hike would blow over. NOPE! Around here, were slated for single digit temps this upcoming week! Real problem is whats going on over on the east side! People are sucking up that propane like theres no tomorrow!

 

Called around locally here, crazy prices! Found decent price at the local Big R at $2.99. JOY! Okay, so that was a few days ago. Was not able to get in until this evening because of my new schedule from work. So I get there right before they were going to close. Look at the current price sign by the tank:

 

$5.99/gal!

 

Give me a BREAK! Guy comes up to do the propane, I ask him, "WTF?" I said you guys said it was $2.99/gal the other day? "Yep, and it went up $3 over night! :banghead:

 

Before you get off saying anything, given that I did not know whether I was coming or going for work and having to travel around, I could not get a 120 gallon tank unless I was going to be in the area for atleast a year. That was the policy of the propane company.

 

So, I'm stuck using the 7 gallon bottles with the trailer. Been able to usually go about 5-7 days per bottle. Which was only about $60/month for heat. The larger bottles would be a bear for me to handle/fill, not to mention expensive.

 

So, I spent almost $71 on 11 some-odd gallons of gaseous gold today!

 

Wow... I think I'm gonna need to sneak a wood stove in this trailer somehow...

 

Good thing they did not ration me!

[stodg73]

Instead of a wood stove, look at a pellet stove.

 

http://www.lowes.com/Fireplaces-Stoves/Wood-Fireplaces-Stoves/Pellet-Stoves/_/N-1z0zq3l/pl?cm_mmc=search_msn-_-Seasonal%20Heating-_-Wood%20and%20Pellet%20Stoves-_-harman%20pellet%20stoves#!

[Mopar1973Man]

Electric heater?

[dripley]

I have used electric heaters in mine ever since my first winter in the 5th wheel. Even in parks where I have to pay for power, electric has always been cheaper than propane. From what I have read here propane was always seemed more expensive out my way, east vs west coast. The last I bought was for the house and I have a 100 gallon tank. This was early last fall and I paid $2.50 a gallon then. My 30# usually cost about $25 to $30 to fill.It has been like that for a long time. I have heard about a shortage of the gas but since the RV has been sitting at home most of the winter, I have not had to buy any. I will have to check and see what the price is here in Alabama.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just thinking about this again. I really do have a problem with this. Here is Wild & Free over in ND telling about how great the oil drilling business is and that there is plenty of fuel to go around but just a few states away its "OMG and WTF?!" Like here the price of propane has been the same for years at $3 a gallon. I just bought propane 2-3 days ago and nothing new here.

[Ilikeoldfords]

As far as I know this is what's going on. There are 3 major propane pipelines coming down from canada. One of them came apart/exploded last week. We lost tons of propane but we are also now limited to 2 pipelines. That's why the price is so high. People around here that use gas heat for housing are told to set the thermostat at 60* to save gas. It's no good.

[Wild and Free]

Supply and demand.  The cold winter not in a single area but nation wide has contributed to the shortage and in the Midwest states we had a late wet fall and a lot of crops, corn in particular was being harvested very late and wet so farms and elevators need to dry it down in big propane driers which from coming from a large farm we had a grain drier ourselves they suck up a LOT of propane, with the price of fuel oil the last several years a lot of folks upgraded from fuel oil to propane nation wide.

 

Here in ND it is just as high as anywhere else. But as I posted in another thread I have 2 one thousand gallon tanks to protect against this very thing, The house alone can go a year on a single tank if I do not fire up the shop furnace. I usually run the shop furnace for about 5 months and keep it at around 35*, with the shop running I use about 1200 gallons a year on average. I think I paid under 1.50 last summer.

[Wild and Free]

Here is a local station news story about it.

 

http://www.kxnet.com/story/24565359/propane-prices-sky-rocket

[CSM]

Supply and demand.  The cold winter not in a single area but nation wide has contributed to the shortage and in the Midwest states we had a late wet fall and a lot of crops, corn in particular was being harvested very late and wet so farms and elevators need to dry it down in big propane driers which from coming from a large farm we had a grain drier ourselves they suck up a LOT of propane, with the price of fuel oil the last several years a lot of folks upgraded from fuel oil to propane nation wide.

 

Here in ND it is just as high as anywhere else. But as I posted in another thread I have 2 one thousand gallon tanks to protect against this very thing, The house alone can go a year on a single tank if I do not fire up the shop furnace. I usually run the shop furnace for about 5 months and keep it at around 35*, with the shop running I use about 1200 gallons a year on average. I think I paid under 1.50 last summer.

 

 

Look at the big brain on Brad!  

 

Hedging is smart.  Energy is still cheap... Especially gas. 

[diesel4life]

There is no shortage of gas anywhere period. Fracking has exploded all over the country and we are sending tankers over seas daily. We need it, and we will pay for it.

[CSM]

There is no shortage of gas anywhere period. Fracking has exploded all over the country and we are sending tankers over seas daily. We need it, and we will pay for it.

 

That is correct.  There is no shortage of reserves, proven, behind pipe, or unproven.  However, gas prices at the wellhead are still quite low, especially when you look at historic gas prices in light of current inflation. Oil is similarly soft given our inflation.  

[Wild and Free]

Look at the big brain on Brad!  

 

Hedging is smart.  Energy is still cheap... Especially gas. 

Who is Brad..............Forget my name already?

 

Biggest issue we have as a country is the ability or should I say more accurately "capacity" to move the product efficiently and to process it in the quantity we need to keep up with our own needs, I agree we need to keep more of what we produce in resources here at home.

 

Do not mix up the abundance of natural gas versus propane, propane needs to be processed out of other natural resources, see comment above.

[MnTom]

Um,fracking brings up natural gas and propane is a by product of refining oil. Two different substances.

[ABennin]

Who is Brad..............Forget my name already?

 

I think he was making a reference to Pulp Fiction. 

 

Propane is being rationed around here for over a week already.  You can only get a 100 gallons at time.  All the area store shelves are empty of electric heaters and it looks like it isn't going to warm much on the 10 day forecast.  I have been burning more wood than normal.  I am happy all the seasoned wood is oak and maple this year.  Makes nice coals that last all night.

[Mopar1973Man]

 

Strange... I've heard comments about it locally but prices are still the same old yet. I'll ask out local propane guy that is on the fire dept when I seen him at the Tuesday meeting.

[Wild and Free]

Um,fracking brings up natural gas and propane is a by product of refining oil. Two different substances.

Here in ND natural gas is a by-product of bringing up the crude and is being flared off as the infrastructure for capturing all the natural gas from the oil wells has not kept pace with the oil drilling but it is catching up fast as they are building pipelines like mad and building nat gas processing plants as well but there is a long way to go as there are incentives for both the oil companies and mineral owners as well as the states to capture and sell more nat gas. Both products are coming out of the same hole in the ground here. I know we are a bit different that way as most other areas of the country frack for nat gas only.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Wild and Free

[diesel4life]

Um,fracking brings up natural gas and propane is a by product of refining oil. Two different substances.[/quote

Actually it comes from both oil refining and reprocessed natural gas....propane is in unrefined natural gas as it comes out of the ground

[hex0rz]

Instead of a wood stove, look at a pellet stove.

 

http://www.lowes.com/Fireplaces-Stoves/Wood-Fireplaces-Stoves/Pellet-Stoves/_/N-1z0zq3l/pl?cm_mmc=search_msn-_-Seasonal%20Heating-_-Wood%20and%20Pellet%20Stoves-_-harman%20pellet%20stoves#!

  Unfortunately, I do not own this trailer outright, and I do not think my auto insurance company would appreciate it nor, my credit union. We have a pellet stove, but punching holes in the trailer is not an option. It was just a joke about how I wish I could change it for the better.

 

Electric heater?

We've got one running and have been since Nov.

 

As far as I know this is what's going on. There are 3 major propane pipelines coming down from canada. One of them came apart/exploded last week. We lost tons of propane but we are also now limited to 2 pipelines. That's why the price is so high. People around here that use gas heat for housing are told to set the thermostat at 60* to save gas. It's no good.

 

I have my tstat set on 63. Its the highest I can set it without causing the furnace to run every 5 minutes! I really wish I had some straw bales to put around this thing for some extra insulation!

[LiveOak]

Have you considered buying or renting a 250 - 500 gallon propane tank?  Usually the first fill is VERY cheap.  Later on you can pre-buy propane when the price is low and use it when you need it. 

 

This is what I did.  I bought a 1,000 gallon propane tank for $1895 but the first fill was 99 cents a gallon as was the next refill 12 months later.  Since I own my tank, I can shop around and buy propane from anyone I want.  This allowed me to pre-buy another 900 gallons at $1.29.  It has take me almost 4 years to use up the pre-buy propane, I have 100 gallons left. 

 

Yes it is expensive up front but the cost of the tank combined with the extremely low price of the first 2 fills actually pays for the tank.  When I got my first 2 fills at 99 cents a gallon, the going price for propane was around $3 a gallon. 

 

Check around with your local propane dealers and find out what offers they have.  Usually the best time to do this is during the Summer when demand is low and the driver/installers need the work.  Right now, they are pulling their hair out trying to keep up with refilling customer's tanks. 

[AH64ID]

Old thread, but it's propane season again.

 

I just bought a home that is on propane. I put a 1000 gallon tank in, with the hopes I only have to fill in the summer when prices are lower. I just filled it for $1.99/gal two weeks ago.

 

The home also has a pellet stove, so I am planning to use that for most of my heating needs.

 

With pellets at $3.98/bag and Propane at $1.99/gal my 100K breakdown is

 

pellets $1.19/100K BTU's

propane $2.19/100K BTU's.

 

Once I throw effeciancy's into the mix I am

 

pellet stove $1.39/100K BTU's output

propane $2.73/100K BTU's output

 

I am also lucky in that my pellet stove is in a room with a vaulted ceiling and the main furnace return is in the peak of the ceiling. Last night I messed with a thermometer and came up with the following.

 

Return Air Temp 82°

Discharge Temp in Master Bedroom (longest total run) 68°

Master Ambient Temp 62°

 

So just the fan operating is going to slowly warm the home, or at least maintain temps in the bedrooms. The kids are sleeping so much better in 55-60° rooms, and still have a warm place to eat breakfast and get ready for school.

 

I will see what happens when the temps dip lower than the 20's.