Coolant leak and lots of "newb" questions

[copperdodge]

Okay, so I have several questions about my 2004 QCLB2WD and what I am perceiving as a coolant leak.

 

1.  About a year ago, I had a leak in my a/c condenser & it was repaired by a radiator & tank welding shop that's next door to my job.  While it was there, they said the coolant was very low so they topped it off for me.  They had caught me, as I rarely check the coolant level, but I was surprised to find the orange coolant in the reservoir tank.  I was unaware that my 2004 Dodge would take that stuff (I thought GM was kinda the only folk with the orange coolant).  Is this the right coolant?

 

2.  Fast forward to about 1 month ago, and my truck develops a "whine" or "whirrr" that's only audible in the cab (too much other noise to hear it with the hood up).  It is RPM dependent/changes speed with the RPM of the motor.  Not really noticeable on the highway (tire noise, wind noise, etc), but is very noticeable as I drive in stop & go traffic as the engine warms up.  It sounds like the power steering pump on any old  Ford car... I checked my power steering reservoir and it's below the "add" line.  I was under the impression that if this noise actually IS power steering related, it would only occur when the steering wheel is turned.  This whirrrr is all the time.

 

3.  As I am checking the power steering reservoir, I notice that the coolant reservoir is almost empty again and now I have red/orange/brown fluid residue all over the front of the motor.  The "field of residue" is generally in line with the front of the block/ accessory drive area.  It's stained & damp on the lower radiator hose, the a/c compressor, the back of the P/S reservoir, the front edge of the oil pan rail, etc.

 

So, is this "whirring" the sound of a failing water pump and the residue/loss of fluid the result of the leak from the pump shaft?

 

I have read a few search items here and saw I could pressurize the system  look for leaks...  Guess that's my start point?  Just trying to familiarize myself with the CR cooling system, so I came here to Mt Olympus for knowledge.

[copperdodge]

In reading this post, I learned a lot:  http://forum.mopar1973man.com/index.php?/topic/5390-06-and-later-water-pump-change-the-easy-way/

 

just wanted to add that I currently have 110k+ miles on the truck.  Have owned it since 52k miles.

[mopartechnician]

Yes the coolant is a orange color, the p/s pump turns all the time so it can make noise anytime the engine is running. You need to add some Atf+4 to bring the level up. Its probably not going to stop the noise. Also if you have an auto, make sure your dipstick tube isnt rubbing against the heater core hose or the cab. You will understand when looking at it.

Now on a water pump leak it will usually leak down the passengers side, but it could be blown around by the fan. You need to look at the underside of the upper radiator hose that goes into the radiator. I have seen them leak there and the only way I found it was by running my fingers under the hose and finding water. Also look at the drivers side radiator end cap for leaking. A good pressure test usually will find a leak

[MnTom]

That does sound a lot like a water pump beginning to fail. Crawl under the truck and look up at the water pump. There is a weep hole that would have some tell tale seepage. You can also run your finger under the water pump (with the engine off of course) and see if your finger becomes wet. The water pump is quite easy to change, just two bolts hold it in.

[copperdodge]

Dual discovery under the hood:

 

1.  De-tensioning the belt & rotating the water pump pulley by hand shows the pulley is very loose and easy to manipulate.   Guess the pump is step one...

 

2.  The idler pulley at the top of the belt drive assembly has a very defined coolant leak coming from where it mounts to the front of the head.  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[MnTom]

Do you mean the right front corner of the head? That could be the thermostat housing leaking OR it could be the water pump is throwing water around. I had that happen and it sprayed the alternator and burned it out.

[copperdodge]

No, this is where the idler pulley mounts to the front cover directly above where the cooling fan mounts.  There is a trail of rusty coolant-leak coming out from the base of this mounting point.  It's red & slimy & smells of coolant.

[copperdodge]

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/attachment.php?attachmentid=31704&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1268006547

 

The top most pulley in this diagram... right where it mounts to the engine.  There's a leak from where it meets the engine.

[copperdodge]

Here's some pics I took.  The leak at the idler and also the pretty nasty looking lower radiator hose.  I bet it needs replacing, just looking at the area around it....

[MnTom]

I see where you mean..... I really don't know about that one. I don't know if the bolt goes into the water jacket or not.

[MnTom]

If you are going to use the green stuff MAKE SURE you flush out all the orange stuff. Otherwise you will have a coagulated mess. The two types do not play well together.

[mopartechnician]

Dont use green. It cant be used on the types of metals. That is one of the reasons they switched

[copperdodge]

I'm going to use orange. 

 

 

So, after a LOT of Googling, it looks like that pulley mounts into the fan pulley support block, which mounts to the face of the block and not the cylinder head.  Looking at my photos and tons of photos from Google images, it seems like there's actually clearance between that fan pulley support block and the face of the cylinder head.  In short, there's no way that liquid of any kind is able to come out past that pulley mount bolt. 

 

I am confused as to why that trail of coolant is there...?

[copperdodge]

Here's a schematic of how it mounts....

 

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/images/parts/Chrysler/fullsize/i2248058.jpg

[JAG1]

Do a google search. Orange antifreeze is not recommended in Cummins engine due to some silicone type seals in the engine block. This according to the University of Tenessee Agricultural extension article on coolant changes for farm equipment. I went out and tested my 11 year old green stuff and the Ph level is still well into the alkaline levels.

 

My 400 thousand mile first gen has only had the coolant changed twice. Been runnin on green ever since it was new. Radiator just got hot tanked and repaired/ resoldered last year. Heater core still works great no leaks.

 

    

Aword to the wise here to you young guys... If it isn't broke don't fix it.

 

This means don't try any new fangled thing till its proven.  

 

Gm developed the orange stuff  onlybecause they started 'cheaping out on their head gaskets and couldn't take the green.                                          

Edited March 31, 2014 by JAG1

[mopartechnician]

So your saying the coolant that comes from the factory isnt good for it?

[JAG1]

Not sure now.... maybe newer Cummins uses green stuff. It was first developed by GM due to their cheaper head gaskets couldn't take the green and problems developed. I have always used green and never heard about this new orange antifreeze. Like I said my green stuff in my 02 is still very alkaline according to my Ph test kit. And my 92 has only had green changed twice in 400 K.

[copperdodge]

 

    

Aword to the wise here to you young guys... If it isn't broke don't fix it.

 

This means don't try any new fangled thing till its proven.  

 

                                        

 

 

That sounds like some good advice.  Since it came from the factory with orange in it, and the owner's manual says put orange back into it, I'll stick to what works instead of that new-fangled green stuff.

[mopartechnician]

Not sure now.... maybe newer Cummins uses green stuff. It was first developed by GM due to their cheaper head gaskets couldn't take the green and problems developed. I have always used green and never heard about this new orange antifreeze. Like I said my green stuff in my 02 is still very alkaline according to my Ph test kit. And my 92 has only had green changed twice in 400 K.

Thats because yours is a 02. They started using the orange/pink stuff on the 3rd gens

[MnTom]

If it were my truck I would use a pressure washer to clean the front of the engine and change the water pump. Then I would put the orange antifreeze in it and monitor the area that looks like it is leaking.