Airdog quality

[rancherman]

here's mine with -0- hours.

Sorry for the fuzzy pics. I was probably 4 inches too close!

I found the little star washer that holds the seal in place, 'off center'. half the little tabs that bite into the housing were straight, the opposing side tabs were bent up pretty severely. If that was putting any side pressure on the seal, it may have ate it up pretty quickly.

I didn't knock the seal out, I was a little afraid to force that star washer out and expect it to hold next time. Those little tabs were bit into the aluminum pretty deep.

Seal appears to be just a solid thick seal,(the 'rubber' is about 1/4 inch thick, same as the seal housing) and the pressure side has a slightly smaller diameter, forming the seal lip. I'd say the motor shaft would be in full contact with the whole depth of the seal.

[rancherman]

I'll bet when the thing was assembled at the factory, the flat spot on the motor shaft 'cleaned off' the lip on the seal when it went through!

I'd say my seal is the same as yours.. when looking past the star washer

Edited February 1, 2015 by rancherman

[Dieselfuture]

here's mine with -0- hours.

Sorry for the fuzzy pics. I was probably 4 inches too close!

I found the little star washer that holds the seal in place, 'off center'. half the little tabs that bite into the housing were straight, the opposing side tabs were bent up pretty severely. If that was putting any side pressure on the seal, it may have ate it up pretty quickly.air dog pics 008.JPG air dog pics 010.JPG

I didn't knock the seal out, I was a little afraid to force that star washer out and expect it to hold next time. Those little tabs were bit into the aluminum pretty deep.

Seal appears to be just a solid thick seal,(the 'rubber' is about 1/4 inch thick, same as the seal housing) and the pressure side has a slightly smaller diameter, forming the seal lip. I'd say the motor shaft would be in full contact with the whole depth of the seal.

 

Mine popped right out, I used piece of round stock that fit nice in the hole and one tap with small hammer came right out, but no star washer for me some odd looking wavy one.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[Dieselfuture]

This might do some of them http://t.harborfreight.com/180-piece-viton-o-ring-kit-67525.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[Ilikeoldfords]

I am still running my Raptor 100 from AD. I am not having any pressure issues but over the last year or so the pump has gotten very noisy. I wonder if I could solve the problem by replacing the bearing in the pump? The Raptor is the same motor that is on the AD Pumps, right? My thinking is if it is just a bearing that is worn out, maybe I can save the rest of the pump by replacing the bearing. Might as well do that seal too so as to save me any issues down the road. I also have an older FASS 95 pump that came on the truck when I bought it. It still pumped steady but the pressures were pretty low. Maybe I can rebuild that pump too and have a decent spare.

 

Looking at these pictures, everything looks pretty simple when it comes to these lift pumps. Maybe, if someone were to source the parts and put together some rebuild kits...... Think about the opportunities!

[Ilikeoldfords]

So I just popped apart that old Fass I have. It's looks to be built identical to that AD you are working on.

Looks to be in good shape. Bearings are pretty shot and that seal came out in pieces. That little wavey washer was in pieces when I opened it up. Any idea what that does?

[diesel4life]

I am still running my Raptor 100 from AD. I am not having any pressure issues but over the last year or so the pump has gotten very noisy. I wonder if I could solve the problem by replacing the bearing in the pump? The Raptor is the same motor that is on the AD Pumps, right? My thinking is if it is just a bearing that is worn out, maybe I can save the rest of the pump by replacing the bearing. Might as well do that seal too so as to save me any issues down the road. I also have an older FASS 95 pump that came on the truck when I bought it. It still pumped steady but the pressures were pretty low. Maybe I can rebuild that pump too and have a decent spare.

 

Looking at these pictures, everything looks pretty simple when it comes to these lift pumps. Maybe, if someone were to source the parts and put together some rebuild kits...... Think about the opportunities!

The Raptor and AD100 motors are the same...I mounted a new Raptor motor on an old AD100 pump a year or so ago.

[Ilikeoldfords]

Is that little wave washer in there just to hold the seal in place? Mine came out in pieces but the seal was pretty firmly stuck in place.

[rancherman]

far as I can tell, the wavy washer on mine is against the bearing. probably to keep the bearing pressed into the housing. Edit, just took it back apart and the wavy washer is between the bearing and the end. There is a small shoulder that holds it off the seal, so the wavy washer is keeping the armature from floating back and forth.

My bearing also has an oring that seals it on the outer race and housing too.. besides the rubber seals on the bearing. The brush end of the motor only has steel shielding, no apparent rubber seal...

I think I'll tear mine apart tonight again and pop that bearing and seal clear out.. there may be a difference in them after all!

My pump's serial number is: 404233 I think I bought it 3 years ago?

Edited February 1, 2015 by rancherman

[rancherman]

Well, All I can say is.. my seal is out, and it's totally different than yours.

After popping the little star washer/retainer out, it ends up being just a really thick o-ring, and a little plastic 'top hat' shaped plastic insert. This insert pops into the oring, and the plastic part is in actual contact with the rotating shaft. The o-ring only seals against the OUTSIDE of the plastic insert and the housing.

This HAS TO BE the problem child/ quality everyone's been talking about! That plastic is the only thing keeping fuel out, besides the seal on the actual bearing.

(this is why it's still in the box)

Now, finding a replacement o-ring is probably doable, but that insert has no markings at all.

The star washer in my hand is what is jammed into the housing, and presses against the insert, which puts a squeeze on the oring. The small part of the insert is what goes inside the o-ring. The only contact with the shaft is the inner part of the insert

[diesel4life]

(this is why it's still in the box)

Yep, its probably junk, you'll probly wind up on the side of the road shortly after you install it. I'll do you a favor and take it off your hands "for parts only"!!

You don't have to thank me, just looking out for my fellow forum family members!

Edited February 2, 2015 by diesel4life

[Dieselfuture]

Well, All I can say is.. my seal is out, and it's totally different than yours.

After popping the little star washer/retainer out, it ends up being just a really thick o-ring, and a little plastic 'top hat' shaped plastic insert. This insert pops into the oring, and the plastic part is in actual contact with the rotating shaft. The o-ring only seals against the OUTSIDE of the plastic insert and the housing.

This HAS TO BE the problem child/ quality everyone's been talking about! That plastic is the only thing keeping fuel out, besides the seal on the actual bearing.

(this is why it's still in the box)

Now, finding a replacement o-ring is probably doable, but that insert has no markings at all.

The star washer in my hand is what is jammed into the housing, and presses against the insert, which puts a squeeze on the oring. The small part of the insert is what goes inside the o-ring. The only contact with the shaft is the inner part of the insert

airdog seal 001.JPG

airdog seal 002.JPG

airdog seal 003.JPG

airdog seal 004.JPG

I heard somewhere they were redesigning that seal because it grooved shaft too much, maybe that is their solution. Similar to front crank seal, meant to be put on dry.

Edit. On the other hand I think seal I got probably better but it groves shaft, I know in the link I posted earlier from cummins form, guy mentions shimming his .005 so it rides in different spot. What they need to come up with is mechanical seal that would wear on itself, and once you pull it of the shaft there will be no evidence of wear on the shaft or housing. Some pumps at work have them and some shevy rear ends have them, I'm sure plenty of other things have them too. If someone made it small and useable might be an answer.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[Dieselfuture]

far as I can tell, the wavy washer on mine is against the bearing. probably to keep the bearing pressed into the housing. Edit, just took it back apart and the wavy washer is between the bearing and the end. There is a small shoulder that holds it off the seal, so the wavy washer is keeping the armature from floating back and forth.

My bearing also has an oring that seals it on the outer race and housing too.. besides the rubber seals on the bearing. The brush end of the motor only has steel shielding, no apparent rubber seal...

I think I'll tear mine apart tonight again and pop that bearing and seal clear out.. there may be a difference in them after all!

My pump's serial number is: 404233 I think I bought it 3 years ago?

Agreed on wavy washer.

[Wild and Free]

I've heard  too that the isspro  sending unit   is  stout enough  to withstand  the  pulses.     I think    WildandFree   told me  he  is   running  isspro  w/o   snubber.

 

edit:  has  anyone  tried to  just use  an airlock...  like  used  in  household  plumbing.      It'd  be   tee'd  into the  line,  and  the sensor  would  be  on THAT  line,  and   BEYOND  the sensor  would  be   6-8 inches  of    dead end  air.   probably need to keep that part vertical.   Make it  about   double the size of  the  line..    3/4 inch  should do it.

On my 02 I ran a Westach FP gauge W/O a snubber with my FP150 Fass no issues in the several years I had the setup. I have no gauges on my 05 yet. Of all the gauges on the market I am a big fan of the reliability of Westach overall, nothing fancy but reliable and durable like no other.

[Ilikeoldfords]

Well, All I can say is.. my seal is out, and it's totally different than yours.

After popping the little star washer/retainer out, it ends up being just a really thick o-ring, and a little plastic 'top hat' shaped plastic insert. This insert pops into the oring, and the plastic part is in actual contact with the rotating shaft. The o-ring only seals against the OUTSIDE of the plastic insert and the housing.

This HAS TO BE the problem child/ quality everyone's been talking about! That plastic is the only thing keeping fuel out, besides the seal on the actual bearing.

(this is why it's still in the box)

Now, finding a replacement o-ring is probably doable, but that insert has no markings at all.

The star washer in my hand is what is jammed into the housing, and presses against the insert, which puts a squeeze on the oring. The small part of the insert is what goes inside the o-ring. The only contact with the shaft is the inner part of the insert

airdog seal 001.JPG

airdog seal 002.JPG

airdog seal 003.JPG

airdog seal 004.JPG

 

I wonder if you could get the actual seal like I have in my pump and like dieselfuture has in his pump. No wonder all the airdogs are having problems!!! That little piece of plastic cannot last long under much heat and it doesn't look like it would seal very well from the beginning!!

 

What I think is funny is the pump that I pulled apart is a FASS 95 that is about 8 years old. It seems to be built exactly like the AD's you guys have now. Just needs a bearing and that little seal replaced.

[rancherman]

Does FASS offer parts??

I should 'mic' the bore on mine to see if it's the same bore as what you guys have.. ( I already have your seal's dimensions) I could machine it to a size of seal that is readily available too..

[Dieselfuture]

I spoke with FASS today and talked a bit about AD and seal from tiwan that usually fails and also about rebuild kits, I didn't get straight answer about kits but sounded like no. On the seal they said that the most resent titanium pump that I got they did some improvements on seal and some internals, but didn't say what. I also asked them about my pressure spikes of 3psi and they confirmed what I suspected, ball and spring in return like AD. He said maybe from sitting on shelf ball gets grove in it in one spot and that affects it. I just did same mod that I've done on my AD where you coil spring a bit titer so ball doesn't sink in it and guess what, pressure is steady now. and pump is quiet. So if you have a noisy pump try this mod in picture and put the ball back so it has new surface to seal against. I just used magic marker and put a dot on it and made sure I can see dot facing me before putting spring and fitting in. I believe Mike deserves credit for this mod.

[Mopar1973Man]

Nicely done on the spring mod. I'll have to do that to my new spring and see if it works.

[Dieselfuture]

Nicely done on the spring mod. I'll have to do that to my new spring and see if it works.

Thank you, learn from the best on here.

[Ilikeoldfords]

So is that groove in the ball where the spring had stretched around the ball? Or from being pushed into the pump housing?