john greenman

Hmmm, I have no idea how I could change the advance curve? Advance setting (timing) is straight forward but curve? I don't know enough about the P7100 pump. I would have no idea what the right curve would be even if I knew how to change it. Thanks, though

Thank you all; have sent a message to Contagious Diesel Performance. I did find a feference in another forum (not a member so couldn't pursue) to a different timing setting as the stock setting causes firing when the piston is in the wrong position for optimal results. Any thoughts?

Thank you. I have never read any details, but everything I have read indicates they must stay matched. Best guess is that I will need another piston set and another injector set.

There may be existing threads on this subject, but when I had my engine rebuilt, I was unfortunately convinced to go with Marine pistons. Now, more than a year later, I am still not happy with the way the engine runs (I have been through a lot sorting out mistakes that were made, too numerous to go into). In any case, the rougher idle, lower fuel economy and higher egt are all negatives. As I understand it, marine pistons require marine injectors. My question is, short of pulling the engine, yanking the pistons and going back to stock, are there any options to using a more efficient and smoother running injector? Thank you

the marks are painted on as approximate and I use them and the valve position only to get close to TDC ; again, using the dowel to get TDC. Reset timing at 15, 15.25 BTDC (it was 14.5 BTDC before I messed with it). For some reason I don't get, not I am getting consistent 30 PSI on my gauge with needle valve just cracked open. I truly do not get this as I haven't changed anything else at all. I guess I'll put the fuel lines back on the way they were and drive it and see where I am so to speak.

I'll look again tomorrow when I am fresh and let you know; I am sure it goes up some, but I have too many configs in my head now so am not sure. When the truck is shut off, the pressure spikes up for about 4 to 5 seconds, plateaus and then slowly drops to about 3 or 4 psi and this takes at most 10 to 15 seconds (I believe). Again, will confirm in the morning. My fuel gauge setup starts off with an 1/8" tap into the banjo fitting as described. However, I used an 1/8 female npt to 1/4" barb, 1/4 inch hose about 4 ft long (so I can hold gauge in cab of truck), needle valve and gauge together. Assuming I got the air out (simply turned key on until electric fuel pump pushed fuel out the end of line while holding line up), it should be a closed hydraulic system and so not care about step up in size of line (1/8" npt to 1/4"). Might be more steady with needle valve at other end of the line with 4' of diesel filled hose adding to dampening? Many thanks --- Update to the previous post... Mine are: 0402 736 841 PES6P120A120RS7275 --- Update to the previous post... Great info. Thx. Confirms mine is a manual pump for a 1995, 175 hp. --- Update to the previous post... The plot thickens. I decided to go ahead and set the timing to 14.5 BTDC which I did. Tried starting the truck and it wouldn't run for crap and put out copious quantities of white smoke. Assumed the gear had slipped, so rechecked and timing spot on at where I had set it which is actually about 14 to 14. 25 BTDC or .178 inches of lift. Process: Bring engine to approx TDC based on marks on harmonic pulley and both valves closed (loose in and ex rockers) on #1 cylinder, install dial indicator with about .3" preset, back engine until dial clearly has stopped moving, zero dial indicator, and turn harmonic pulley forward until pin drops into hole and read gauge .178" Assuming I have not done something stupid, something is up. Any thoughts? Thank you --- Update to the previous post... Darn am I dumb; I had it at 14.5 BTDC all along and just changed it to something off the chart by pulling info from the wrong column; should have been a lift of .244 for 15 or .240 for 14.5; I had .240.

I am totally getting it except for the part about the needle not bdancing; my needle always dances unless the valve is 100% shut and even then it moves ever so slightly;I thought I saw the one in your video do so as well; it is a matter of degree. If I just barely open the valve, let's say a 2 to 5 degree turn, the needle dances about 1 to 2 psi, but it still dances. Not trying to be difficult, just trying to get this right. In any case, if I go with that setting, I am getting 20psi with fuel pouring past the OFV. Even if I pinch off the return line so no fuel comes out, I only get about 25 PSI on that setting. That was why I was beginning to think I may have 2 problems. 1990 F350s have a dual tank system. There is a solenoid controlled valve operated by a switch on the dash that allows the driver to switch between tanks. When you switch tanks, the fuel pumps in the tanks are switched simultaneously. I am not intimately familiar with the details, but that is the general idea. This truck was set up with a manifold on the input part of the lift pump; both tanks supply lines and the return from the injection pump go into this manifold. In order to run return lines to the tanks, I would need to somehow mirror the supply set up. Honestly? It is a lousy system with a lot of over priced components; very convenient when it all works, but fraught with potential problems; at least several recalls on it. I have no fuel heater. I totally understand the logic thanks to all of your help; I certainly did not when i started. In any case, based on fuel flow, etc, I believe my filter is fine (just bought a new one but at $32 I may save it). It would seem that with not being able to get more than 25 to 30 psi no matter how I restrict fuel flow, I likely have a week pump. It would also seem that with the fuel flowing constantly through the OCV, even at low pressures like 10 to 15 psi, I likely also have a bad OCV. Finally, when I shut the engine off, the fuel pressure spikes up to the highest value I see for about 3 to 4 seconds before it starts dropping. This is while running the delivery pump right out of a 5 gallon can and the return going back into the same 5 gallon can so none of the complications of the F350 system are in the equation. This seems odd!

Again, depending on exact setting of needle, it starts off idling at ~25psi with fuel spilling through. If I pinch off, it raises to ~30 psi, but fuel is still spilling through. If I raise idle, pressure drops to ~15, 20 PSI, fuel still spills through. If I do what one is not meant to do and pinch off completely, doesn't go over 30 psi, fuel doesn't spill through or hardly does. i to 2 minutes of this filled a gallon container. Could I have both a bad valve and a weak lift pump? --- Update to the previous post... BTW, plan on changing filter and running test once more as that is last variable (that I can think of).

Great job on the video; Wow! Thank you. --- Update to the previous post... Dodge Dealer and another parts store are telling me ~$250. Sounds like you know of a source for $75, at Cummins? If so, that would be great. Thank you (not quite ready to buy as haven't run all above tests, but sounds like I will need to so doing my homework) --- Update to the previous post... Sorry, you said Cummins Dealer; have a call into them now. --- Update to the previous post... Finally got the test run direct from fuel can, return direct to fuel can. Amazing how much fuel goes through the return. No real change in pressure though. With the filter being as new as it is, I doubt that will make any difference, so looks more and more like lift pump. It also seems that it would be wise to figure out a way way to get that return back to the tank. Won't be easy as it is a two tank system; most likely need to run a line to a solenoid controlled tee, or something to that effect. Yuck!

Trusting that when the pin is locked in the gear, it is correct. Haven't made any attempt to go beyond that; maybe I should given the other crap this mechanic has dished out. I actually just found that chart in a google search. It would seem that if I have the pump that I believe I have, I am running at about 22 BTDC which might be a bit much. As far as the lift pump is concerned, they must have check valves in them; from your experience, is there much chance of there being a check valve problem? I have left the pressure gauge hooked up for now; it seems that when I first start the engine, the pressure is up around 25 to 30 psi at idle, but if I rev it, it drops as low as 12 and doesn't go back up very far. Just passing these numbers along (somewhat tentatively as they seem to change from one try to the next) in case they say something. I still haven't tried setting up a remote fuel tank as its been raining.

I agree, but I would like to understand this chart and I don't. May I ask what a CLP and how it is used to determine the correct timing? I was given 6.1mm or .240mm or 19 BTDC by the pump rebuilder, but that was based on a 215 HP engine. I am using a dial indicator to set timing, so if I understand you correctly, I should be using something closer to 4.5mm or .177" of lift height? Either way, I agree that I need to deal with the fuel pressure, what I don't want to be running too advanced without understanding the consequences, both advantageous and disadvantageous. At least one thing I read cautioned about not doing so without special mods to the head or head gasket. Thank you

Actually, I don't know if it came with an automatic truck; my Ford was an auto before the conversion. Hmm. Now I am lost. I have no idea whether this engine was coupled with an auto or manual, I have no idea what the CLP was/is. If what you say is correct, the pump rebuilder (with the best of intentions) led me down the wrong path in choosing the right timing spec. Ahhhhhh! --- Update to the previous post... Thinking back, I am fairly sure it was determined (either I was told or it was figured out from the serial number) that it came from a manual, not auto. Not 100% on this point though

I used the 215 hp (have the chart) numbers because that was what I understood this engine is now (at least should be) with the pistons, injectors etc. Was this the wrong logic? Thank you --- Update to the previous post... BTW, don't know where he got the engine

History: For some stupid reason I got a bug up my butt to have an F350 with a Cummins; seemed like a good idea at the time. Anyway, found this guy who 'specialized in conversions, bought a 1990 F350 (wanted an older one because I was planing on importing it to Canada and import laws more forgiving on 25+ year old vehicles) and put it in his hands. He found a 95 Cummins engine with ~100K miles. I had him pull the head and oil pan so that he could take a close look and reseal the engine as it was reassembled. I also had the auto trans taken out and a 6 speed put in, the diffs regeared and different tires put on. For the first ~7K miles there was a chirp/squeal coming from the bell housing when ever the throttle was hit or backed off from. This was never diagnosed and it eventually went away and I forgot about it until my clutch went out. It went out in stages on a return drive from BC. I was able to limp the 900 miles to where this mechanic lived and he agreed to install a new clutch (there was also a head gasket issue, but that's another story). he installed a really high end clutch and the when he was done the noise was back. Turned out that the thrust washers/spacers on the main bearing were shot all along and the crank was moving for and aft, thus the noise. So he took another block he had, rebuilt it and installed it. We also had the injection pump serviced and he installed new injectors. When all was done, he had someone else set up the pump (I have no idea what was done). It was quasi warranty work. It seems he rushed the job and there have been numerous problems as a result. One was that the tappet cover was leaking; to fix this I had to remove the injection pump. I had only driven the truck ~600 miles before initiating these (and other) repairs. I do not remember whether the truck had more power during this time than it has since. He stopped communicating with me and I got mad and now I have no contact with him (he won't respond) so I have no access to basic information. I have asked the pump rebuilder to try to get in touch with him and see if we can get some basic info and hope this approach works. I need this information so that the correct timing of the pump can be determined. I need to know what pistons were used, what injectors were used, that sort of thing. As of now we are only guessing at the CLP and the timing has been set at 19 BTDC. I don't even know if the head gasket can support this setting (I don't believe I have any head gasket problems at this pt). Forgot to mention, a pyro and boost meter were installed when the engine was rebuilt. As for the final insult, the noise or a similar noise has returned from the bell housing. Its hard to believe the thrust washers have deteriorated in ~5K miles so I don't know what is up and am not focused on that yet, but will ultimately need to deal. Needless to say, I am sorry I ever decided to take this approach, but I have so all I can do is move forward. Does this help? Thx

The overflow line tees in with the supply lines coming from the tank. You are correct that they are all ready pressurized (by the pumps in the tank but not by the Cummins engine mounted pump), but I believe only to maybe ~ 4lbs or so; I would need to check. In any case, the returns definitely do not have an unobstructed flow back to tank so that is likely a good point. On the other hand, this set up did work fine for about 30K miles before all of this started with the rebuilding of everything (engine, injection pump, etc.). In any case, I will try the test with the lift pump drawing from and the bypass discharging into an open container and see what happens. Many thanks once again

Hmmm, if I go with only a slightly open valve so needle is barely bouncing (like what I see on the gauge on your video), my fuel pressure is too low and stays low, even goes down when I bring RPMs up. If I go with a more lively needle, fuel pressure is around 25 and stays there, give or take a few LBS. The delivery pump is almost brand new as are filters (primary on rail of truck and secondary on engine). No difference between front or rear tanks, plus I have had pick up out of front tank and screen is clean. My return line only goes as far as delivery pump where it tees in to supply. I don't like this because it may cause a hot fuel issue. In any case, slightly squeezing line appears to make no difference. The first time I tried it, I thought it did make a difference, but now it doesn't; this I do not understand unless I over squeezed it and damaged something (pressure never went above 30, assuming gauge was reading pressure correctly). I rechecked timing and it is 19.5 BTDC. This setting was based on 215HP, CPL 2175 to 2023 (no tag on timing cover, non stock engine). Trying to find out from the engine re-builder if these are the values I should be using, but no luck yet. They were best guess of pump re-builder. I don't seen to have an inter-cooler leak. Could be defective delivery pump, even though new? BTW, there are electric fuel pumps in tank which are working (turn ignition key on and they can be heard plus with any opening in the line, fuel shoots out). They have been there since the conversion and have never hampered performance. They are a nice feature as they keep a positive pressure through the system right up to Cummins delivery pump. I perhaps should try taking a fuel line from a 5 gallon bucket direct to delivery pump and be sure there is no issue with tank and line set up (see if pressure improves).

Well, finally got all the components together to check the fuel pressure. Of course, what I am seeing is not entirely clear as it depends a lot on the setting of the needle valve. If I have the needle valve mostly closed so that the gauge needle dances only a bit, the pressure is about 15psi at idle and drops when I raise the throttle at all. If I open the valve more, the needle in the gauge dances more, ticks louder, but shows about 25 at idle and seems to not drop; it all seems to depend on how far I open the needle valve. According to the pump re-builder, the needle valve was replaced (they are sending another one anyway). This was my first step so I haven't done the others yet, but thought I would pass it along.

I will get a new seal so I can put my dial indicator in (replace the fuel delivery valve after I take it out) and check the timing, check carefully for leaks in the inter cooler, make sure the waste gate is not stuck (even though i suspect you are correct about it more likely being stuck closed than open), and look and see what the adjustment of my fuel plate is and then let you know, OK? might take a day or so. Really appreciate your help, having the opportunity to talk to someone who knows these engine as I am fairly new to them. Worst case, i can try to find someone good in the SF Bay area who has a dyno and knows these engines, but I would prefer to go as far as I can using this approach as I am learning as I go. So thanks again, and I will be back in a day or so. Cheers,

I was travelling from British Columbia to SF Bay area of CA down rt 5. Only mentioning this in case you happen to know the route; there are numerous hills, ~7, 8 % grade that go on for at least a mile. Again, truck is an F350; it is a club cab and it was lightly loaded, so gross weight under 8K, probably 7.5K lbs. Because of lack of power, I was using full or near full throttle going up hills until I learned that if i let the vehicle slow down to about 60 MPH, it got into an RPM and torque range where it was happy. I also learned that I gained little by applying more throttle other than a bit more power and raised EGT. So, at let's say 85 to 90 % throttle, I could maintain about 60MPH and not exceed 850F to 900F, but at 100 % throttle, as speed slowed down to say 65 MPH, near the tops of the hills, EGT would rise towards 1050 (I never let it go above 1050, into the yellow on the EGT). Before the engine was rebuilt, it was stock; it had issues so was likely not the full original 175HP. Yet the truck when loaded as light as it was on this trip would still have no problem on the hills. I would often tow a boat (double axle trailer, net ~5K); now the truck feels almost like it is towing that trailer even when it is not; not quite that bad, but almost. Does this give an idea? Happy to provide more detail if it helps. Cheers

Other than testing tightness of clamps, any good tricks for inter-cooler leak testing? In any case, I will go thru and check that, recheck timing, and then check plate and star adjustment. One last question; would the fuel plate set for too little fuel tend to raise or lower EGT? I want to equate it to a lean mixture, high EGT as in a gaser, but this may not be correct. Thanks so much for all your help; really appreciated. Cheers,

From what I can tell looking back in the mirror, no, it does not. Its the pistons that are marine; pump is, I believe stock, although governor was supposedly modified a bit when it was sent to the re-builder so the RPM cut out is set a bit higher. Delivery pump is new (as are all filters), but there are also the electric pumps in the tanks (vehicle originally a Ford F350 gaser). Both pumps seem to be working and no difference in performance from one tank to the other. But, I have not checked delivery fuel pressure. Anyway, no or little black smoke that I can see. Thx

Wow, that was cool and helpful. My truck has the line to it from the the in man to the AFC, but there is no fitting for a line to the turbo (so no leak, just no feedback to the wastegate); manifold pressure should be controlling the AFC, but not the waste gate. There is a wastegate controller, a bit different configuration than yours, but it is there and so a place for the line. I need to try the air pressure test you suggested to see if it moves and ultimately determine what position it is in (open, closed, in between?). This engine was just rebuilt by a guy who now will not communicate with me. It has non stock pistons (marine?), non stop injectors (don't know). The pump was rebuilt and the fuel plate supposedly modified, but I do not know for sure what was done(this I can find out from the pump re-builder). I then paid to have the pump set up by a person the engine re-builder recommended. The tappet cover on the engine was leaking profusely when I got it back (a sign of this guys workmanship?), so I had to remove the pump to repair the leak. As I had never removed such a pump, I incorrectly guessed that the gear was aligned with a key so other than setting engine at TDC, did not check the timing. I have worked with the pump re-builder to try to come up with the best timing; the timing cover does not have the CPL (or any tag) on it. Bottom line, if I did my work correctly, because the engine (supposedly) should be in the 215 HP range, we used (I believe) 19 BTDC as a benchmark (CPL 2175 to 2023, .240 on the indicator). This I set using a dial indicator, so unless the gear slipped on the shaft, it should be very close to that (was checked and rechecked). Again, the EGT was getting up around 1050 (top of the green) and might have gone higher on hill climbs unless I backed off on the throttle, yet Boost was only 10, 10.1. Thanks again; great job on the video

I don't believe there is any air line, but I will go check. Thank you very much --- Update to the previous post... No, there is no line, nor does there seem to be a place to attach one on the AFC on my pump (I may simply not be familiar enough with it, but I see no obvious way to hook up a line). Seems strange.

Thank you for the reply. I have a pyrometer and boost gauge set up on a recently rebuilt engine. Injection pump also recently gone through by a good shop. Problem is no upper end power; lot's of torque and power at lower end, but as RPM's rise, power drops. Bosst gauge never shows higher than 10, 10.1. On longer highway hill climbs, if I holf full throttle, EGT climbs to unsafe levels. Seems I have one of two, maybe three (that i can think) of problems. Either the timing has slipped on the injection pump (easy to check) or something has gone wrong internally with same pump or waste gate is stuck partially or fully open. I haven't really examined the waste gate control, but it looks like there is some sort of rod that goes to some sort of modulator or controller. The modulator has a nipple which one would expect some sort of line to go to (vacuum?), but there is no line. Your answer helped alot, but what I am wondering is if the waste gate is stuck, how could I check it? Am I correct that this device is a controller, or am I barking up the wrong tree? In any case, what are the best things to check to insure the waste gate is working correctly? Also, I read somewhere that injection pump issues could keep the turbo boost down. I don't understand this correlation. Thank you again for your reply.

There must be some old threads that describe in detail the workings of a wastegate for a '95 12v; if so could someone possibly direct me? I seem to be inept at searching this site. If not, I have some questions about how it works. Thank you