Jump to content
Mopar1973Man.Com LLC
  • Swapping between 98.5-00 & 01-02 Dodge Cummins ISB 24v VP44 Engines


    Many people need to change their engine out due to “53” blocks, catastrophic failures or just plain wear & tear. Most do not know about the differences between the two “Sub generations” as I will call them. I will try to explain it all in this article. I will also give known ways to accomplish the swap & why. I will also give an alternative way that I presume will work, but cannot guarantee.Firstly, for some basics. If at all possible, get a replacement engine of the same sub generation if at all possible to make your life easier. Second, if you must use an engine from a different sub generation, GET A FULL DONOR VEHICLE.For the proven method of swapping sub generations, you WILL need the ECM, PCM, full engine harness & PCM at a minimum. Now, there have been a few cases where either the donor truck or recipient truck has the factory security system. In these cases, you may need the gauge cluster and/or the CTM (Central Timer Module).


    Here is an exerpt from http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ECM/ that explains most of it & I will denote my changes to it with “**” at the beginning & end.98.5-00:


    “ Engine RPM and timing are derived from the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) on 1998-2000 models. A 35 tooth tone ring with a gap where the 36th tooth should be is bolted to the crankshaft. A hall effect sensor registers each tooth as it passes and sends the signal to the ECM. The tooth gap corresponds to 60 degrees BTDC of cylinder #1. A Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) senses a hole ** Slot ** in the back of the camshaft drive gear to check for TDC of cylinder #1. This signal is used for diagnostic purposes and is not used to control the fuel system. ** It is also used to drive the tachometer to my understanding** Here is a picture of the back of the 98.5-02 gear”. **Notice the depth of the slot!**

     

    98.5-00camgear.jpg.6afc81d9de1702564116f

    Picture captured from www.ebay.com


    Now, here is the crank & crank gear from: http://www.dieselbombers.com/dodge-diesel-tech-articles/15100-ram-tough-rebuild-cummins-engine-specs-brief-history.html

    98.5-02crankgear.jpg.c7b08bcee555d7aeb8e

     

    The upper most crankshaft is the first design used from 1983-1997.5 and from 1999.5-2002 for Dodge applications. The crank in the middle is the second design with the crankshaft position sensor trigger ring that was used from 1997.5-2002 for non-Dodge applications. The lower inlay shows the that the trigger ring is two pieces and can easily be replaced without crank removal. The second-generation crankshaft is forged steel and induction hardened as well. It also has 8 flywheel bolts and includes two dowel pin holes for flywheel location. This crankshaft was used from 1997.5-1999.5 for Dodge and 1997.5 through 2002 for non-Dodge application. In Figure 4 you’ll notice the slightly different relief as well as other differences. This crankshaft uses a bolt-on crankshaft position trigger ring, which is manufactured in two pieces. It could actually be replaced in-chassis if it needed to be done that way”.If you read the article, you will see that it is a 2 piece gear that is replaceable with the crank in place. I do not think the 01-02 Dodge crank is machined for it, as per the article.Another possible option for this gear replacement is a product from Destroked that is a tone wheel, sensor, bracket & hardware to go on the front of the crankshaft.
    Here is the link: http://www.destroked.com/prod_tach_kits.php


    It is the “36 minus 1 tach kit”. Although, this seems like it will replace the crank wheel, I am not positive that the signal is exact. Please contact Destroked for more info on that.The only other differnece that I can think of between the sub generations is the MAP sensor, as the 98.5-00 reads a different value than the 01-02.01-02:
    Now, again from the article :http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ECM/ :


    “The crankshaft position sensor was deleted for 2001 and 2002 models; engine speed, crankshaft position, and injection timing information will be derived from the camshaft position sensor signal. Notches are cut into the rear face of the camshaft gear. A hall effect sensor registers each notch as it passes, and sends the signal to the ECM. A missing notch corresponds to TDC of cylinder #1”.
    Here is the cam gear:

    image.png


    This image captures from a Fourwheeler.com article:  http://www.fourwheeler.com/vehicle-reviews/131-0407-dodge-ram-cummins-upgrade/ 
    As far as I can count, there are 60 or 61 teeth minus 2 (Difficult to count from the image). Now, NOTICE that the 2 missing teeth are beside each other. To compare that with the crank gear from the 98.5-00 crank gear (Counting a 2:1 rotation of the crank/cam rotation), the older crank signal would have 72 teeth, minus 2, but the 2 “Minus” teeth would be on opposite sides of the cam gear. Now, go back up to the text of the 98.5-00 cam gear & remember that I mentioned the depth of the notch? That is depth from the outer edge of the gear. Notice the difference of about 1/4” difference (From my uncalibrated eyeballs)? Also, the depth inward to the face of the notches is deeper on the 01-02 gear. To me, this means that along with the cam gear, you will also need the full gear housing & 01-02 CPS (Cam Position Sensor) to make the 01-02 electronics work on a 98.5-00 engine. Just block off the Crank sensor hole, or leave the sensor in, but not connected.
    MAP sensors:
    The 98.5-00 MAP sensor reads a different value than the 01-02 MAP sensor. Also, the 01-02 MAP sensors read the same values, but have different plugs. If swapping between 01 & 02, you can use your original MAP sensor, or get an adapter from many diesel suppliers that adapts the plug.Other than these issues, there should be no differences that will throw a CEL (Check Engine Light), or make any driveability differences.

    Author: Ed Grafton
    Screenname: Yankneck696
     

    • Like 2

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    chuckles

    Posted

    Hi, just starting on this project.  Have a 2002 Ram 3500 HO, (assumed since 6 speed) that someone put at 1998.5 (august 98) 215 SO engine in.  Runs like complete crap.  Idles great, but wont go over 60 mph.  Misses and stumbles off idle.  Has the persistent Cam Sensor performance code and the tach quits after 7 seconds of startup.  So have a 2001 gear, timing case and CPS on the way.  Also has teh correct 2002 MAP sensor.  Any tips or tricks? 

    • Owner
    Mopar1973Man

    Posted

    No... @Yankneck696 had dropped out about 4 years ago. He was in Utah then moved and never heard again.

    Got Horsepower

    Posted

    This is my exact situation with my truck. I bought a 2001 engine put it into my 2000 truck. The diesel performance shop had my truck for a year and couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t run right. I finally took to the forums and found one post that said you had to have the ecm and wiring harness from the same year as the installed motor. So after a year and a half I finally bought a2001 harness and a 2001 ecm. $523 for harness with 1year warranty. $699for ecm with $200 core and 1year warranty. Looks like I might also need to buy the pcm and map sensor. It’ll be worth it to get my 650 hp truck on the road again!

     

    Thanks for this post! It was extremely helpful! 


×
×
  • Create New...