DunnerCummins24

Just getting back from a wedding today and gonna take the truck for a boot today and tomorrow and see if I can get it to act up and see what the meter does. The set screw I have a dab of loc tite and a markered line indicator on it because I was having issues with it moving but it’s still all good and yeah the cables move freely. Is the .058 vac a concern? That’s everything off and fully warmed up. But usually the truck acts up in the morning or first start when my vac is .1 and up. Just wondering if I had an alternator with lower VAC when warm if that would then correlate to lower numbers when cold. I do have another reman alternator in the box I could try if it’s worth it.

So I rigged up an analog volt meter and ran two wires through the firewall. Ones back probed into the signal wire and the other is from battery ground. I tried to drive the truck Tuesday and couldn’t even get it out of the driveway. So I figured this is a perfect time to test this with the truck acting up. I did also clear the codes. But I drove 35km to work and 35km back with zero issues, truck ran great. I did test it with key on engine off and took the APPS through its range on the voltmeter and it was perfectly steady without hesitation. Now I just have to keep driving it to catch it when it acts up and see what the volt meter does? Also all my AC voltage tests were at first startup so I checked it after driving home with everything off and it was .058vac.

John, Thanks a ton for laying that out, i will 100% be doing that. Do you think that would cause my issue? We are supposed to go camping again next weekend and I don’t have a whole lot of time. Two questions I have are I was going through old threads here and saw moparman said for alternator AC noise that .05 is marginal and .10 is failed. I was having .7 with accessories off and .125 with everything on. Is that an issue? I had some other guy tell me that’s totally fine? Also saw a test on blue chip diesel on back probing the APPS and seeing if the voltage increases when the throttle kicks up, they said to route it into the cab and check it while driving with an analog meter. But it’s doing it consistently at idle, that’s something I could check fairly quickly and easily.

I didn’t use the starter as load when doing the tests, are you able to explain that? Have you seen many Timbos go bad? All my wiring between APPS and ECM is good. Timbo is maybe just over 2 years old. Thanks for checking that out on yours.

I was just checking across the wire from end to end. Honestly I can’t remember which wire it was, I just took pictures of the multimeter readings. I should have recorded it better. And okay sounds great thanks. My readings are zero unless I’m on the throttle, but I did notice the odd time while I’m cruising it dropping out to zero but that could be this scanner, it’s kinda slow and laggy. And then now I’ve noticed it going up when the trucks revving and my foots off the throttle.

So weeks ago I did perform some voltage drop tests on a bunch of the cables, a lot were like .1-.2, one was .5 I think. Again truck ran great after having the ECM unplugged and doing all those tests. Then we left to go camping last weekend and of course acted up, really just idled high at 1100 and surged a bit but got us there and was fine on the way home. Went to take it for a ride this morning started increasingly slowly idling higher and higher, kicked back down for a couple minutes then snapped to like 2000 and then I just shut it off. I have been cruising around with scanner on and watching the APPS pid and have noticed with no throttle input I am getting an APPS %, I’ll attatch a picture from this morning when it was acting up and foot wasn’t on the peddle. Tried a APPS reset after it was idling high this morning but that’s when it snapped to 2000 after that. Thinking it has to be electrical the way it can just go away for weeks when I’m messing around in there? Really leaning towards the ECM now.

Thanks for the reply John. Splice 165 is where the 4 wires were taken to the back of the timing cover all together? If so that splice is good. My battery cables are as old as the truck and same with the main grounds coming off them. Not sure if it would be worth changing them? Was looking at a 240a mechman alternator with the full kit to change all the cables. But by the time I get it to Canada I’m looking at 1700$ and probably isn’t going to fix it, would just be nice to have that done. I have a suspicion of the ECM, but not 100% sure there either.

Checked all 6 this morning from connector to ECM and .2 for all pins, even 32 which was reading higher yesterday. Wiggled the harness and pretty much stayed the same. Key on terminal #5 am getting 5.1 volts. Checked between the pins too for shorted together wires and nothing. Put everything back together, plugged alternator back in. Cleared codes and did a APPS reset. Drove the truck for 10 minutes zero issues. Couldn’t even get 2 minutes past my house yesterday lol

Hey John, Yeah did test on meter first. I’m gonna try 32 again and wiggle the harness and see if anything happens. Is it worth checking the other 3 pins? Gonna spend some more time in there this morning.

Did what John said and pinned out between APPS and ECM and got these readings. 25 .2 32 .7 31 .2 All in ohms.

Haven’t had time to pull alternator but took it for a drive this morning, started acting up right away. Shut it off and got out unplugged alternator. Truck ran great for a couple blocks and then started doing it again, if not worse than when the alternator was plugged in. Still throws the same code P0121 and I’ve got a P0382 which is unrelated I’d think. Any insight which direction I should be looking now? APPS? ECM? VP? Wiring?

Yeah that would have been a good idea. What would you recommend as next steps? From what I’ve read online my readings are way high, but from the guy I talked to yesterday he said they’re fine. Should I pull the alternator and send it out? I was going to try driving it this weekend with alternator unplugged and see what happens.

Talked to someone today at a alternator/starter rebuilder spot, and the guy makes wiring harnesses and rebuilds alternators and he said those values are fine but sounds like I have a wiring or ground issue, especially since after I did the WT ground mod it was better for a few weeks then came back. Was saying that sounds like when I did the ground mod I had “touched” whatever the problem was or affected circuit since it did get better for a short amount of time.

Hey guys, been a bit since I last posted. I didn’t drive the truck much over the winter but when I did zero issues. Now it’s warming up outside here and starting to have problems. Drove it last weekend and took me 20 minutes to do a 10 minute drive. Dead pedal and revving up on its own. Sometimes it would dead pedal and id pull over, wait a minute and then the throttle would be back without clearing the codes. It would happen again and sometimes I would restart it and it would start revving high right away at the same high RPM like when I shut it off. Eventually I left the code and kept trying to get where I was going and it surged a bit while I was driving but eventually ended up being okay. I brought my multi meter home from work and checked for AC noise because I’ve been suspect of the alternator. With the truck running right away with lights, radio, defrost heat, grid heaters, etc. I was reading .112-.185 depending if heaters or compressor clutch was cycling. With heat shut off I was reading about .071 and seemed to be coming down as truck ran longer but I usually have problems when I first start driving. From what I’ve read these readings are way to high? Am I looking at a new alternator here? If so what’s the go to? Looking at getting a 170 amp and have looked at nation and mechman. Thanks!

Thanks for the info John! I have the timbo APPS, do you think it would be worth back probing the green wire and adjusting the set screw? I know the previous owner had an issue with the set screw backing itself out but this is an entirely different assembly than what he had when that happened.

Hey John, Thanks for the reply, was away for a bit and then was driving my TDI Jetta, have been driving the truck, the pedal reset seemed to work for a couple days. Then it started acting up again, now that it’s happening on almost every single drive I’m going to check the throttle position on the scanner while it’s doing it. But it seems to be getting worse. It’ll be revving high when I’m trying to come to a stop, doing it at idle or even while cruising it’ll surge up and then come back down. Saturday I fired the truck up and it went straight to 2k RPMs, shut it off and turned it back on and it was fine, kicked up a bit leaving but like before once up to temp it’s USUALLY okay, it has done it the odd time once warm but it’s rare. It’ll throw a code still but won’t dead pedal, it throws a P0222 Idle validation signal code. A weird thing I noticed if I plug my mini scanner in it takes forever to get all the monitors to run, but the CEL just disappears when you plug it into the OBD. No issues with snap on scanner. Is it possible I have an injector issue or oil issue causing it to idle up like it has been?

Hey guys! Thanks again for all the help, truck ran the best it’s ever ran for 3 weeks after the ground mod. Then Friday morning took off for work and coming to a stop at the first stop sign the idle was staying high, kicked up a couple times and kind of just drove through it and really tried to keep it moving and once temp started coming up it ran fine. Ran fine on the way home. Then this morning was leaving to go help with picking up hay, fired the truck up and went inside and heard the idle kick up so ran out and was around 1200 so watched it and kicked back down after 30 seconds or so and then it went up to like 2k so I shut the truck off, fired it back up and just took off. Ran fine all day, picked up 3 loads of high, truck was on and off, drove 2 hours total after to pick something up. Ran great all day. I did check AC volts Friday when I got to the shop and it was fine with the truck warmed up, haven’t checked in the morning. Was thinking maybe when I had the excessive AC noise maybe it did something to ECM, VP or alternator? But why would it be good for 3 weeks and then come back and only happen when cold? Was thinking of installing a high idle to try and get it up to temp quicker but don’t want to bandaid an issue if something else is going on. Thanks again!

Yeah so I did the drivers side 4 wires to the case, then did case to drivers negative. Then did alternator to passenger side positive terminal with 150A fuse inline. It made sense in my head that it would be okay to leave it unplugged, so I went ahead and fired it up, and I’m gonna be honest with my previous readings of .127Vac I did not think this was going to make much of a difference, but I rechecked and .046Vac!! Still higher than some peoples readings but took it for a drive and ZERO issues, truck ran the best it’s ever run since I’ve owned it. Also I’m not liking my fuse setup so I ordered a fuse holder and switched to AMG fuses but I’ll run this for now.

Alright awesome! Any issue leaving it for now and doing it later?

Okay sounds good, tackling the mod right now, as for the new ground going from gear case to drivers battery is it okay if I use 4GA cable compared to the 6GA that’s used? I have brand new 4GA lying around. Also is everyone leaving this connector just open? And leaving the other ground that goes around the air box?

And you just use a stock alternator? This the fuse you’re running? And just ring terminals bolted on both ends?

I’m just about to order the breaker and was looking at a Blue Sea 150A, but was thinking if I do need an alternator is it worth upgrading? Are guys having luck with these upgraded alternators? Just don’t want to get a 150 breaker if i end up getting a 170A alternator. I also read something about using a quadzilla for the high idle?

Yeah no kidding, will be tackling the ground mod this weekend. Only question I’ve got is the AC noise I’m getting at .127 is pretty high, will the ground mod clear that up? Or do I have an alternator issue as well?

Thanks for the reply John! I have gone over a lot of the grounds, battery terminals are good, did those when I dropped two interstates in when I first bought it. I’ve seen that WT mod before but out of laziness never did it, I guess maybe it is time? Was just looking at moparmans write up on it as well. Maybe that’s something I’ll get done. Has anyone on here had luck upgrading alternators to something like the XDP or mechman? Also good call on the idle screw, i will make sure it hasn’t moved.

Hello everyone, New to the forum here, have a 2000 Dodge 24 valve. I’m a mechanic by trade, bought the the truck off one of our customers. He had this issue towards the end of his ownership, truck would surge during idle and the odd time would throw APPS code but he could still drive it. The trucks had a couple different APPS sensors, OEM and aftermarket. When I bought the truck last summer I did a ton of upgrades/maintenance, starter, alternator, 2 new batteries, FASS and sump, fuel pressure gauge and a bunch of other things non related to the problem. I did all the APPS testing between sensor and ECM and everything checked out. After doing the timbo APPS my issues seemed to go away (the alternator change was around this time too). We have a truck bed camper and went on a couple long trips with no issues. I don’t drive it much in the winter but again when I did, no issues. The start of this year also had no issues, and then things slowly started to creep back. I’d be sitting at a stop light and truck would kick up a bit, started becoming more frequent, and now it’s dead pedalling again, I’ll take off for work in the morning, I’ll be trying to come to a stop and RPMS will stay high, then 2 minutes later CEL comes on and no throttle. Takes me a while to get into the system with my scanner, I’ll clear it and I can drive but will either rev real high right away and trip the light or it’ll throw it a minute down the road again. But then if I work through it enough times, and the truck warms up enough I can get going with no issues. I can go somewhere, shut the truck off, go in somewhere and drive all the way home, again no issues. But if the trucks cold or sitting for days it’ll give me issues. I checked for AC noise and am getting 0.127V, is this possibly an alternator gone bad? Like I said I replaced it last year with the timbo and was good for awhile but now a year later dealing with the same problems. Just want to make sure I’m not missing something here. Seems weird to me that it goes away when the truck warms up. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!