leathermaneod

I did, see below.....

In the clutch diagnosis section of the FSM, it talks about the master cylinder plunger "dragging and/or binding", and in that case the components are corroded or worn and to replace the hydros. Maybe I just got a bad unit? Alright mission accomplished! I went out, pulled the slave and tried to move the fork. Its hard to get a hold of it to move it around because that hole is so small. I was able to move it back and forth, I'd say about an inch or so. I don't really know what it should feel like, but I didn't feel anything that concerned me. It was kind of sticky, but like the smooth stickiness of grease, not what I'm feeling through the pedal. Now of course I can't push it anywhere near all the way by hand. However, next I tried to push the slave cylinder piston in by hand. At first it was kind of stuck, but then it moved and squeaked pretty good. Im not sure if thats just the sound of air going through the little hole in the reservoir cap or what, but between it being stuck slightly at first, and then that noise, I'm thinking I got a bad one. What does it sound like to you?

Well this is very disappointing. Got everything all greased and put back together with new parts, and at first it seemed great, but after getting the truck warmed up, then running into Lowe's for a bit and then driving it again the problem is definitely still there. That seems to be the trigger for it too. Its fine until you get it warmed up, shut it off for a bit, and then drive it again. Really weird. So what should my next step be? Do you guys think I could learn anything by pulling the slave and moving it by hand and looking in there? Maybe try and move the fork by hand some? I don't want to throw new hydros at this thing if I don't have to. Especially since my are new and I'd be waiting for months to find out from Napa if there are gona give my money back or not. Should I just keep driving it for a while and see if the problem goes away on its own? Maybe its not really a problem but just a stage in the break in of the clutch and all? What do you all think? Btw thanks for the diagram dripley, it was very helpful.

Ok thanks! From your interpretation of the diagram, where would you say that washer goes? Between the bushings and the pedal? Or between the bushings and the frame that everything hangs from? It seems odd to me that it would be between the bushings and the pedal like mine was....and with the things I've found on my truck I don't trust anything the po's have done lol

Ok thanks! I just wasn't sure if that was as much as it was supposed to be or if some nylon washers taking up that space wouldn't be better than a spring washer. If you look at your brake pedal, is that where the spring washer is? Between the pedal and the bushing? or is it between the bushing and the frame that this all hangs from? Also, what kind of grease would you guys use on this? The talks about Mopar multi milage silicone grease or something like that in one place, but in another it just talks about hi temp bearing grease. I have some pink, synthetic mobil 1 grease I was planning to use, but after reading that, I am wondering if I should go with silicone grease?

I'm not talking about the clip that holds the pushrod on. I got those from the dealer for a dollar or so. I'm talking about the little spring washer you can see in the first picture of my main post with write up.

Oh ok. I just wasn't sure if it for some reason needed that little bit of space or give in there. I don't know why they wouldn't have just used a nylon spacer to begin with?

Fine reusing the old spring washer? Or fine using flat nylon washers instead?

Hey guys got another question for the group. So I checked up on that spring washer on the right side of the brake pedal I have pictured above and asked you all about. Dodge dealer confirmed that it is supposed to be there, but they are discontinued. Mine looks ok but I'm wondering if it's lost some of its spring because my pedal clips were really worn out. Anyway do you think I'd be safe using some nylon washers as spacers on there instead of that spring washer? I just want to reduce side to side pedal movement as much as possible....

Gotcha! That makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out.

Ok thanks. I would just like for mine to start engaging a little closer to the floor and I would like to have a little travel before the pedal disengages. Right now it starts grabbing very far out and starts to disengage almost as soon as I put any pressure on it.

Well as always I appreciate you taking the time to present your point of view. I guess there are positives and negatives to both sides. I guess at this point I have to just wait and see what happens once I get everything back together and drive it some more. If the problem persists I guess it will be time to make a decision on hydros....I'm not sure if you answered if you were able to get your clutch to engage closer to the floor with the adjustable SB unit?

Thanks for the reply! Not disagreeing with you at all, but if the seal was shot, wouldn't fluid already be leaking out? I actually already called Napa about getting another set from them, but the issue with that is, they have to send it back and their warehouse tests it. If they determine it is good, then I'm stuck paying for it. Oh and by the way, it takes about 2 months for them to get around to testing it. So if I do get another set, it will be either Valiar or SB and I will try and get Napa to give my money back at least. You are correct about the differences between Valair and SB. I don't think Valair's is supposed to need to be bled, but it definitely does come in two pieces. Thank you for telling me about that though. Did you bleed your SB set before installing it? Also, did it come with a safety switch? or did you have to reuse your old one? Also, with your SB set, were you able to adjust it so that your clutch engages a little closer to the floor?

Hey guys, I have an update! Just got finished cleaning up my grease and tearing apart the pedals. I couldn't get the grease cleaned up as well as I had hoped, but I did what I could. It definitely looked like the grease did make it past the piston :-/. I pressed the pedal and watched it move and I could see the pink grease inside, not sure how that works but it definitely looks like its in there. I sprayed in brake cleaner and wiped off what I could, but I couldn't get in there to wipe it all out so I won't be surprised if it starts leaking. Ill be getting the Valair hydros if that happens, I may end up going that route anyway if all this doesnt fix the sticking issue. After cleaning what I could I sprayed in PB blaster and worked the pedal a little. Then I went on to tearing things apart. I didn't find any obvious culprit, but I did find so possible contributors and some things that I don't like that a PO must have done, so over all its good I'm doing this and its not hard at all. Although, this is definitely one of the instances when the FSM is less than helpful and even somewhat misleading. The possible contributors that I found are just that some of the bushings are slightly worn, none are shot, but who knows, they are probably not helping. Other than that, things are just a little sticky and gummed. Nothing extreme by any means, I don't really think its the cause. I'm leaning toward the master cylinder itself, but we'll see. Maybe the PB blaster will work some magic. Or maybe fresh grease and bushings will do the trick. I'm going to clean everything up with brake cleaner and use scotch brite if I have to to get everything as smooth as possible again. The first thing I found that I didn't like is that the spring clip that holds the brake pushrod to the pedal was worn out and a washer was added to the pin to try and keep it on there. Who knows when that would have slipped off. The other thing is pictured here. Would done of you guys mind checking your brake pedal to see if you have this? I'm talking about the silver washer thing on the right side between the pedal and the plastic bushing. Its springy like the washer thats on the battery temp sensor. I'm pretty sure you won't have it, and I don't understand why they put it here.... The first thing to do is remove the knee bolster. That gives a little better access and visibility to the pedal pivot pin. Next, remove the spring clips that hold the clutch and brake pushrods to the pedals and take the rods off the pedal pins. They look like this. Here you can see how the one on my brake pedal was flattened. Be careful with the spring clips. All you need to remove them is a long flat head screwdriver. It pretty hard to explain how to release them, but Mopar1973man has a great video about clutch hydros install in which he describes it very well. If you do damage them you can get new ones from a dealer. I had to order on because it was flat and no longer springy. Removing the clips and rods allows the pedals to swing backward and forward out of your way. Next, unplug the brake light switch. You can see it unplugged here. It has a safety clip, so just pull that out first. This is so that your brake lights don't stay on constantly while the pedals are out. You do not need to remove the switch completely like the FSM says. This is good in my opinion, because the switch says not to re install it. Not sure how critical that is, but there is no need to pull it completely out. If you are able to put everything back together right away you wouldn't even need to unplug the switch. Next, you'll want to remove the E clip from the passenger side of the pedal pivot rod/pin. It looks like this. Then you can slide the pin about an inch toward the driver side and remove the E clip from that side. You have to do that because there is only enough room to push that pin all the way out to the passenger side. I used a curved hook to pull the E clip off mine. The driver side clip had been replaced with a snap ring. I think the PO did that because I read that the passenger side E clip has been know to pop off during operation. I may use a snap ring again when I put it back together. Now you can slide the pedal pivot pin all the way out to the passenger side and your pedals will come down. Now you just have to clean everything up and put it back together. Some extra pics for you all. This is the pedal pivot pin. I wrote on each end with a sharpie so that I could put it back in the same way. This is the passenger side where the E clip and the end of the pedal pivot pin will be. The clutch side of the end of the pedal pivot pin. The gouge on the right is from the top of the clutch pedal rubbing into the padding/insulation under there. I believe the marks on the left are from the pedal pivot pin sliding part way out and rubbing whenever the passenger side E clip fell off and a PO added the snap ring. The hook I used to remove the E clips. The worst looking of the bushings. Slightly deformed. Before you start, you may want to order all six new bushings. The are about $4 a piece and you will need six. The FSM is a little confusing and kinda makes it look like you only need 4, but you need 6. The part number is 0429 4639, and they are all the same. You may also want to order new spring clips and E clips just in case. I don't know the part number for those yet, but I will try to remember to update this when I get them. I will also post any and all other tips/info I find when I get mine put back together. Mike you asked for an article on this, I am assuming this is going to be good enough. Please let me know if there is any other info you would like added or changes you would like made.

Well thanks again for all the helpful tips guys! Now I have to wait for some better weather but hopefully by this evening I will be able to clean out the grease with brake cleaner the same way you added PB blaster. Once I get that cleaned out as much as I can I'll try adding some PB. I'm pretty sure that's not going to work since the grease didn't but at least it will hopefully save my new master. Then I'll be replacing the bushings and greasing the pedal pivot. And I'll post back with some pics and details and let you all know if it solves the issue or not of course.

I meant the lube more for the inside walls of the master than the rod, but maybe you still don't need any. And what katoom said does make sense. I'm just really hoping that's not it lol. We used synthetic hi temp grease and only a very small amount

Ugh I sure hope that's not this issue. I appreciate the input though. I sure hope it's the pedal bushings! Mine does do it with the engine off though so who knows.

Thanks for the tips again guys! Is there anything else I should spray into the back of the master after I clean it out with brake cleaner? I know brake cleaner kinda dries stuff out, is there any other lubricant that would be safe for up in there?

Yeah I definitely didn't think it would hurt anything. I'll try the brake cleaner tomorrow. Yes it should be only on the outside...I only put it on the outside. Only way it could have got in is off the piston pulled it in or didn't clean it off the walls of the cylinder. Pushed the pedal in and stuck grease in behind the piston if that makes any sense. Do you think brake cleaner will get into the reservoir if I spray it behind the piston where the grease is?

Darn it that really sucks ;-( I'm probably ruining my new clutch hydros then. Should have asked you guys before I tried the grease. I didn't just put it on the pushrod, I put it in the back of the cylinder where the pushrod and piston are. I thought maybe it would help if it was binding somehow. It is synthetic grease bit I'm not sure if that will save it or not...do you think there is anything I can do about it or just wait for it to start leaking and then replace it? Mine has not been grabby at all...just as smooth as the old one, which was a lik btw. This slight binding just started after only about 550 miles on the clutch....

Sure I can do that. I'll try to take some pics too. I did try to grease that pushrod btw. As soon as I did I realized that it does not rub anywhere. So then I tried just getting some grease on the inside of the master where the piston is to see if that would help. I went for a drive to get fuel after that and it didn't help. One interesting thing I did notice though was that it seemed worse with the heat on the floor. I don't normally have the heat all on the floor but I did some tonight and it seems a little worse.

Really? It doesn't look that bad...I saw a few people on Cummins forum that said it was easy and leads than an hour of work...am I missing something?

I thought of that, but what if the Teflon bushings are worn out? The lubricant wouldn't help then would it? I do have some fairly minor side to side swing in the pedal so I'm really hoping its those bushings...

Thanks for the input guys! That's very odd about your experience dripley. I'm really hoping if I remove the pedals, replace the bushings, and grease everything my problems will be gone. Otherwise I guess I'll be calling Fred at dap and valair to tell them about this. Did it last thought out the whole time you had your valair?