Redhead steering box leaking, Pitman arm nut loose again

[YeaImDylan]

Hello all, I am back again with of course, more problems with my rig 

 

I'll try to explain straight to the point and give the quick backstory...

 

Popping noise when turning, thought steering box was bad. Got it replaced along with tie rod ends, end links, etc with a brand new redhead. Drive it home and it happens again and the box is leaking out the top. Take it back to the shop I had the work done at and they replace the redhead with another redhead. No more leaking but the pop came back again literally on the drive home. I go back again and they say the frame is cracked (cracked around the driver hole for front sway bar). They repair it and send me on the way a few days later. Popping ensues and I take matters into my own hands. Only does it when loaded (no popping or feeling in front end at the box when on jacks). We check torque for all steering box bolts and then go to do the pitman arm nut. OEM is like 200ftlbs and aftermarket is 40ftlbs with a 90degree turn after (puts it around the 200 mark). 

 

We do the 40ftlbs and it turns a bit and then clicks... Meaning they hadn't been torqueing this nut down! Do the 90 degrees and with no jack stands turn the wheels... Popping is gone. Well it's been about a a month or two and the shaft seems to be leaking power steering fluid. The popping has also come back. I'm at a loss of what to do, do I contact the shop and tell them I found the real issue and now the nut seems to be backing off over time and the redhead is leaking again but at a new area? Do I contact redhead and give them the rundown? I'm just wanting a solid truck to make it back across country in 18 months when I eas and selling it is not an option currently. I can do the repairs myself, next step is maybe replacing pitman arm and maybe even the seal while I'm at it... If I don't talk to Redhead before... I'm pretty sure I had a new arm put in but I'll look at the receipt as this arm looks worn and banged up from the years (definitely doesn't look less than a year old).

 

ANY input is very much appreciated. Let me know if I need to elaborate on anything else.

[Tractorman]

First, I would like to say that I feel your frustration.  I had a clunk / pop in my steering for over 25,000 miles.  It affected steering performance for the duration, not all of the time, but most of the time.  Fortunately, I didn't throw a lot of money at it, but I did install the Rock Solid bushing that supports the lower steering column.  The problem went away for about a thousand miles, like it did many other times when I was trying to diagnose the steering / suspension system.  I would have to repeatedly retighten set screws on the steering shaft.  So, each time that I did something that made the symptoms go away, I thought I had found the cause and effect and the problem was fixed.  But, each time I was wrong.  The symptoms always returned within a thousand miles or so. 

 

In my case the problem turned out to be something that I would have never considered - a sticking slip joint in the new Borgeson steering shaft that I purchased to supposedly improve steering.  The problem first occurred after driving the truck at least a couple of thousand miles after installing the Borgeson steering shaft.  I had to modify the slip yoke operation for it to slide friction free.  After that repair the truck drove so much better immediately.  No more loose set screws.  But, it took me 25,000 miles to figure that out.  That was 95,000 miles ago.

 

I am not suggesting that this is what is wrong with your truck.  What I am suggesting is for you to start over from scratch with your troubleshooting.  There are many things that can make the suspension or steering "pop".   And, when you are taking things apart, or tightening fasteners while you are trying to figure this out, you can unwittingly change the operation of something that might be the actual cause of the problem.  But, because you changed it (not fixed it) the problem comes back. Always.

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

We do the 40ftlbs and it turns a bit and then clicks... Meaning they hadn't been torqueing this nut down!

 

It is not uncommon to have to retorque the pitman arm nut.  If it is not lubed or checked for burrs before torqueing the nut, the clamping force can be compromised. 

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

Well it's been about a a month or two and the shaft seems to be leaking power steering fluid. The popping has also come back.

 

 Need to conclusive here.  Is the shaft leaking?  Clean the area thoroughly and make sure that fluid is not leaking from somewhere else and just collecting around the shaft seal.

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

I'm at a loss of what to do, do I contact the shop and tell them I found the real issue and now the nut seems to be backing off over time

 

I am not sure that you have found the real issue.  You haven't proved a cause and effect relationship.  You only mentioned that you tightened the nut one time.  Have you checked to see if it is loose again?

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

Popping noise when turning, thought steering box was bad. Got it replaced along with tie rod ends, end links, etc with a brand new redhead. Drive it home and it happens again and the box is leaking out the top. Take it back to the shop I had the work done at and they replace the redhead with another redhead. No more leaking but the pop came back again literally on the drive home.

 

You are focusing on the steering gearbox, but your post starts out with a "popping noise when turning".  So, the popping noise is still occurring with three different steering boxes (the original and two replacements).  I don't think the steering boxes are you problem.    This is why I think you need to clear you mind and start from fresh from scratch.

 

When the steering wheel is rotated, a lot of multi-directional force is placed on all steering linkages, all front suspension components, and all nearby frame attachment areas.

 

- John

 

- John

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Tractorman

[YeaImDylan]

21 hours ago, Tractorman said:

First, I would like to say that I feel your frustration.  I had a clunk / pop in my steering for over 25,000 miles.  It affected steering performance for the duration, not all of the time, but most of the time.  Fortunately, I didn't throw a lot of money at it, but I did install the Rock Solid bushing that supports the lower steering column.  The problem went away for about a thousand miles, like it did many other times when I was trying to diagnose the steering / suspension system.  I would have to repeatedly retighten set screws on the steering shaft.  So, each time that I did something that made the symptoms go away, I thought I had found the cause and effect and the problem was fixed.  But, each time I was wrong.  The symptoms always returned within a thousand miles or so. 

 

In my case the problem turned out to be something that I would have never considered - a sticking slip joint in the new Borgeson steering shaft that I purchased to supposedly improve steering.  The problem first occurred after driving the truck at least a couple of thousand miles after installing the Borgeson steering shaft.  I had to modify the slip yoke operation for it to slide friction free.  After that repair the truck drove so much better immediately.  No more loose set screws.  But, it took me 25,000 miles to figure that out.  That was 95,000 miles ago.

 

I am not suggesting that this is what is wrong with your truck.  What I am suggesting is for you to start over from scratch with your troubleshooting.  There are many things that can make the suspension or steering "pop".   And, when you are taking things apart, or tightening fasteners while you are trying to figure this out, you can unwittingly change the operation of something that might be the actual cause of the problem.  But, because you changed it (not fixed it) the problem comes back. Always.

 

 

It is not uncommon to have to retorque the pitman arm nut.  If it is not lubed or checked for burrs before torqueing the nut, the clamping force can be compromised. 

 

 

 Need to conclusive here.  Is the shaft leaking?  Clean the area thoroughly and make sure that fluid is not leaking from somewhere else and just collecting around the shaft seal.

 

 

I am not sure that you have found the real issue.  You haven't proved a cause and effect relationship.  You only mentioned that you tightened the nut one time.  Have you checked to see if it is loose again?

 

 

You are focusing on the steering gearbox, but your post starts out with a "popping noise when turning".  So, the popping noise is still occurring with three different steering boxes (the original and two replacements).  I don't think the steering boxes are you problem.    This is why I think you need to clear you mind and start from fresh from scratch.

 

When the steering wheel is rotated, a lot of multi-directional force is placed on all steering linkages, all front suspension components, and all nearby frame attachment areas.

 

- John

 

- John

 

Thank you for this! I will definitely check it again. Would the best way to check if its backed off at all to set a torque wrench to 200ftlbs and then start wrenching and see if she turns at all before clicking?

 

Also, the main reason why I am now focused on this specific part of the box setup is due to this actually fixing the problem for an extended period of time and then noticing it is now leaking from there more than likely (wiped it down the other day and will check that area tomorrow). I know you said yours would go away for 1000+ miles and this is the first time I've actually gotten it to go away... The only component not replaced down there for the most part is the ball joints but I feel those wouldn't have stopped making noise after torqueing the pitman arm nut... especially since it was so loose. I know in your case it was the shaft, I need to figure out what all could be effected by tightening that nut. The pop definitely comes from the steering box area. I'm just at a loss since the noise came back and don't know where to start troubleshooting again and actually check items off the list that aren't the problem.

[Tractorman]

15 minutes ago, YeaImDylan said:

Would the best way to check if its backed off at all to set a torque wrench to 200ftlbs and then start wrenching and see if she turns at all before clicking?

 

That would be a good way to make sure the nut is tight.  If it passes the test, it might be worth loosening the nut and then retorquing the nut.  Static torque is always higher that dynamic torque.  If you choose to re-torque the nut, make sure the nut is still in motion when the desired torque value is reached. 

 

Since you said the popping noise has returned, checking the pitman arm nut would be the first thing I would do.  Nothing else.  Drive the truck to see if anything has changed.

 

Have you ever checked the condition of the track bar?   A steel bushing moving around in the axle end of the track bar could make a popping sound.  In this case the fastener could appear to be tight, but the flanges may not be clamping the steel bushing with enough force which could cause movement.  

 

Have you checked the condition of the anti-sway bar rubber bushings?  There can be metal to metal contact if the bushings are badly worn or split. 

 

Keep in mind that when you have the truck parked and you turn the steering wheel from one stop to the other, there is more going on than just loading the steering components.  By design (positive caster. kingpin angle and angle of inclination) steering geometry will lift one side of the vehicle - left side when turning left and right side when turning right - every time you turn the steering wheel.  The further you turn the steering wheel, the higher one side of the truck is lifted.  This is to promote quicker straight ahead steering when coming out of a curve by using the weight of one side of the truck to assist in re-centering the steering gear box.  It also loads suspension components, which could contribute to unusual sounds if something is loose, worn, or broken.

 

Just take it one step at a time.  Troubleshooting is nothing more than a process of elimination.  Sometimes you will have trouble proving what isn't working properly, so, switch gears and prove what is working properly.

 

- John