Greenlee

Thanks for the tips bjytech, my filters are good but I have not checked for boost leaks yet. I don't have a gauge for boost or EGTs but I did put on a temporary fuel pressure gauge on at the top of the fuel filter in the plug closed to the center of the filter top. I don't know why I didn't take the entire intake manifold apart and reseal everything. I don't think it would be too difficult to do when I put the new injectors and connector tubes in the engine. I have slowly continued to spend money on this Dodge especially when I determined I could budget it in but there is a limit to reach before you are completely south with no opportunity to get your money out of it. I have $13,000.00 in physical parts plus the cost of the truck. That doesn't include filters being change and fluids. I don't know how you can possibly look on eBay or the internet and see 24 valve trucks selling from $18,000 to $29,000 and even a couple in the $30K bracket. Are they just that good and why don't I see the same value or dollar mark that is advertised. I haven't towed any big items with mine except a 4000 pound boat and that was slow going but no issues, I get great mileage in town and on the road. Is it worth putting more money into this 2500 Cummings, you don't have to answer that I am having one of those days where it is all piled up and I haven't found a starting point to dig my way back out. I have learned a bunch on this one topic alone. I know I haven't scratched the surface in doing so. I will admit I enjoy working on my truck even if it's not me pulling wrenches, I'm still involved. I am sorry for getting so far out on a simple question and I am going to check for boost leaks. Can you give me any pointers on doing this, a spray bottle with diesel in it?????

WOW! short but good video Michael. I have to step out for a little so it might be tomorrow before I can give a full reply, I'll edit this out. Yes, I'll take any pictures you want to share. The exploded diagram of the VP44 pump and all of the parts is great too. I still need to buy a 99 Cummings Factory Service Manual, is the one that Geno sells complete? I have a few Questions

Yep, I corrected my sentence, I should time out for a while to determine if I am retarded or advanced lol. I appreciate all the input on this from everybody. I am trying to compare the TST Fuel Box with the Blue Chip Fuel Management Box. The TST is much less in price but which one works the best for fuel management in my situation. I don't think timing will change the smoke issue but fuel management should. I don't want to this to turn into a bottomless pit in case I need to change over to an automatic. I still need to set up gauges and an air intake after we solve the black smoke rolling out. I am waiting on a set of connector tubes before I have my son install the reconditioned new injectors. How do you take a injector and tune it down a notch? That's pretty cool having a used pump laying around to look and learn the function of. It won't be long until you all put your heads together and develop a superior injection pump.

I see the front of the pump by locating the key on the shaft. Don't have a clue on the rest of it but it is a great picture. It will help with educating me on the function of a injector pump the more I study what's going on and the function of the pump

Thanks for explaining this, I didn't know the VP44 had built in software or it's own computer separate from the ECM. Do you think with the 75 hp injectors I selected has thrown off the calibration of the software controlling fuel delivery? What would clean up the smoke other than reducing fuel, more turbo or air intake?

Thank you for that information, I guess when Blue Chip states mechanical advance that's just what it means, somehow mechanically the timing is advanced from standard settings to this new setting and then the ECM takes over on the additional timing and needed fuel amounts. Does this mean that Blue Chip uses a different computer program on their ECMs used on VP44s?

I don't have the Forum skills to try and answer several quotes at one time. The light is coming on with me and this pump. With all of you adding a little at a time I understand more than I did when I posted the original thread. What Michael said about the boxes in addition to FlagmanRuss and the timing has me thinking. Chip wants to make sure that his Special X is not considered a Hot Rod Pump. The Special X does have a crackle to it with the timing advanced from the get go, it's like using a degree wheel and changing the timing in relation between the crank and distributor, the crank is moved retard or advance the timing, the distributor stays in the same location. At an idle I am already advanced and the pump must continue to advance as the RPMs increase because it's all done mechanically and not with the electronics of the ECM. I am thinking it can only go to a max setting no matter how slow or fast it is driven. The fuel part was and is a little more complicated to me. Somehow the injectors must indicate to the pump because of volume that it needs more fuel to reach the point of popping off and feeding the next one in turn. So the ECM is not in sync with a calibrated amount of fuel needed to satisfy a stock injector. Maybe it is over fueling. I'm just guessing on this. I have read the majority of what Chip has for information on the VP44 but I need to go back and take my time reading it again. When you all say stacking the boxes does it have a plug that is male and female or is there an adapter plug that is used to attach more than one device to the OBD-II? You are right about Chip being retired and selling to Doug but he gets on the phone with anyone who calls and selects option number 8, it goes straight to him. I don't know Doug. I appreciate everyone that has replied trying to help me with this. I hope this post will go to the right location since I didn't select a Quote to start with.

Wow, I need to get my quotes and letter size matched up, I look like a first grader who can't color in the lines. How does the multiquote work?

When you go to Blue Chip Diesel home page on the left side of the page select option VP44 Diagnostic Help: HOW TO DIAGNOSE VP44 FUEL SYSTEM ISSUES It will say Print at the top of the page, put your cursor on the article and do a Ctrl + F and at the bottom of the page it will give you a search box, write what you want to find like "mopar" hit enter. It will show you two places where mopar is located. Click on Highlight all places, start scrolling down till you see it. We didn't used to consider the IAT or Intake Air Temperature sensor as a relevant part of the VP44 fuel system, as we thought it only told the ECM whether or not to turn on the intake heating ribbons, for a cold start. Recently, as of 2014, we have been convinced that this sensor DOES effect drivability and performance. We got this information from callers that have learned otherwise from a smart guy on the internet, who's website is www.mopar1973man.com. Since he has it all documented and explained, we recommend using him and his website for enlightenment, and do not want to exploit or duplicate his good work! The next insert is almost at the bottom of the page ENGINE "SURGES" UNDER LIGHT OR HARD LOAD AFTER CHECKING FOR "AIR IN THE FUEL " DURING OBSERVATION OF THIS SYMPTOM, it may be due to an out of range or improper signal voltage from the IAT Sensor getting to the ECM. We feel morally obligated to give credit where credit is due for this one, so we are referring people with this symptom to www.mopar1973man.com, as he has done the homework for this symptom. :It was Chip I was talking to. When you call the main number wait until prompted to select "8" option. It will take you to Chip if he is taking calls. He does answer and will tell you to call around 10:00 am. Hope this helps. It's good to see some positive recognition especially from Chip who I think was impressed. He should check our Forum more often for information he can share on his site lol. Anybody think a fuel box of some sort will help me with the injector smoke problem? Thank you

All I can do is agree with you on that. I made a decision based on my pocket book. What I mean is financially I thought at the time I would not be able to buy any add-on performance items. God continues to bless my household and I guess I was the only one thinking it is what it is when it's not. I'm stuck with what I bought and I think I would trade trucks before I start buying new VP44s. I bought a 5 speed because I was afraid of the automatics failing on me based on the stories I have read on line. Right now I need an automatic because of shifting issues and how they effect me. Before the Cummins was the Duramax, 2006 SLT. What a powerful piece of machinery, a joy to drive. But I needed to trade it for a car for my wife since she went back to work when I couldn't go anymore. I never intended on owning another Diesel but after driving one for years there is no way to let it go. The 12 valve and 24 valve trucks to me were a lot cheaper to drive and work on than newer brands, again, all of this was based on my pocket book. The Cummins is one bad motor once you begin to understand whats going on. I enjoy driving my 24 valve but as it goes I made some on the spot decisions that came back and bit me in the end. With the help of the Forum members I am confident I will find an answer or solution. Man do I wish I had bought a standard VP44 and not tempted over 22 hp.

I hope all of this discussion will shed some light on what's going on and maybe some other members might have a similar situation, wait a minute, I've got to be the only one that would go crazy buying a Special X pump when a standard pump would have been so much easier.

no other devices being used on the truck. I was asking about using a fuel box to control the smoke. Chips is over $1K and it can't be the only one on the market. I agree on is this an advance problem of not. Fourth paragraph down on the VP pumps on Chips web site states that with this pump customers should be aware that injectors 100hp or more will make the idle lope like a gaser does with a big cam BUT WON'T HURT ANYTHING according to Chip?????? Who knows, it certainly caused an issue with me with 75hp injectors.

Now I understand what you are saying about the pump being limited by it's hard parts so it must be limited on total advancement the same way. Right?

It makes sense what you are saying but I don't think I have much retarded timing the way the pump is described to always have advanced timing even at idle. I am not certain on that just guessing. I want to figure out what to do to control the smoke, I know driving with an egg between my foot and the pedal is a start but what about a fuel management box of some kind?

That's right on trying to retard the timing. So it has to be advanced all the time. Would it still advance the timing as the RPMs are increasing. Wouldn't the ECM advance the timing depending on the driving conditions. One thing Chip mentioned is you can never have too much advanced timing. With a lot of this over my head can anyone point me in a direction to learn and research the timing in a pump? This is why i don't ask a lot of questions, I like to be prepared to speak about a topic and also learn about it too.

I understand and I guess I can learn to do the same, I would like to know how much advance is set in the pump by Blue Chip but this is secret information since they are the only ones building this None Hot Rod Pump.

I agree and I try to not to act like a jerk on the phone when maybe I should. I can tell that Chip is up in years, and knows his Cummins Diesels. The problem is never being wrong about anything so it turns into a one sided conversation. Chip doesn't waste any time getting to the point, he's a businessman and knows the market and knows Dodges. I called several times when buying the injection pump and Chip was extremely helpful every time I called to ask questions. The Cummins was new to me. On the 75hp injectors: Chip went straight to the injectors made by Dynomite Diesel as being the issue but it contradicts what Blue Chip advertises. I'll copy in BOLD what comes straight from the web page: The Special X is NOT what is commonly called a HOT ROD pump. A HOT ROD pump is modified to put out the most fuel for the most power and the worst fuel mileage. It is the total opposite of a Special X. To make a HOT ROD pump many internal parts have to be modified by aftermarket vendors and therefore do NOT have ALL Bosch OEM parts in them, so they typically are less dependable and therefore do NOT come with a warranty. What we do to these pumps gives typically 10% more miles per gallon. We measured 22 more horsepower at the rear wheels on a Mustang dynamometer on our 2000 Dodge with everything stock on it. The Special X also lowers exhaust temperatures and enhances throttle response, so it is a win win situation. The only thing that happens occasionally is if a customer has, or later installs really big injectors such as over 100 HP rated, the idle will roll like a gas engine with a big cam. This doesn’t hurt anything but we want you to know this before you buy a Special X. If you are presently or plan on advancing the timing with an electronic plug in device or programmer don’t buy this pump as we are only doing mechanically what those products do electronically. We do it cheaper. It will not give you another additional MPG increase when used with these products. We do know the Special X with its various internal modifications effects emissions, so if you are concerned about that, please don’t buy this pump. That is why it works though! The Special X pumps do cost $300.00 more because we have to put $300.00 more NEW parts in each one. We feel this is cost effective when considering the cost of fuel these days. Apparently our customers do too, as this pump is our best seller! There are two places that Chip give credit to Mopar1973Man.com for his articles that educated Blue Chip Diesel. I'll list them if anyone is interested where they are mentioned. Thank you me78569 and Mopar1973Man.

Blue Chip Special X VP44 advanced timing I am not sure what to do. Several months ago I bought a set of Dynomite Diesel 75 hp injectors through Parleys Diesel. Not supposed to smoke on a stock Cummins but when the injectors were installed, the black smoke was worse that any rolling coal on Youtube. I called Parleys Diesel explaining the circumstances and results of the injector install. Parleys had me call Dynomite Diesel. Both vendors were doing all they could to solve the problem. I explained prior that I was using a Blue Chip Special X VP44 with advanced timing built in. Brian at Dynomite Diesel runs the Warranty and Testing Department, excellent individual to deal with. Told me to send the injectors back to make certain there were no issues on their end. Brian retuned the injectors but he turned them down a notch. They are balanced and in harmony to work properly. I am hesitant to put them back in my truck, well I’m not doing the work, I have an individual doing the install for me. The last thing Brian said to me was if this doesn’t work then I have VP44 issues with the pump I am using. I paid $2,150.00 for the pump and over the last 2 years I have put 10,000 miles on my truck and VP44. Is there anything else I can do to check my system or is there anything I can add to the truck, a fuel management system or tuner that would improve what I have going on. My thoughts are if I want to use these injectors I will have to get a different VP44 or sell the injectors before I use them again and leave the stock injectors in place. I don’t know how far advanced the timing is but I get little puffs of black smoke out the back now when driving. No luck talking to Chip, the answer I got for using 75hp injectors was “there you go, a set of RV 45hp injectors would be much better”. However, on Chip’s web site they tell you 100hp injectors are fine to use but they will cause a lope in the idle. Any ideas? Could the fuel return at the back of the head cause these issues?

Sorry I had to remove this post without making an idiot of myself. I hope I got here in time. Michael please check this and make certain it is all gone. I didn't get the email or know that the new vendor signed on.

Tyler, I did not see your post until now. I am sorry you had to go through all of this with Doug at Blue Chip. I understand completely why you would be angry after reading the rest of the story. No excuses for being treated like you were. After reading this incident from you, I can no longer support any product that Blue Chip Diesel sells. What they did to you as a customer does not fly with me and ripping you off on shipping can be simply put, Blue Chip Stole Your Money. That is the only way I can look at this. I apologize to you and the Forum for anything I said that was offensive to anyone. I made a big mistake thinking Blue Chip Diesel was on the up and up. Paul Greenlee

Let me apologize as well, I understand it was TFaoro and the only reason I responded to the post was to clear up the issue of Chip Fisher passing away posted by JAG1. I am disturbed by the actions of Blue Chip Diesel and the treatment of a customer, which happens to be TFaoro, and the 2 pumps he went through. Doesn’t add up that Blue Chip Diesel would react like this especially having such a huge customer base. All it takes is one bad report to show up on a Forum or two and that little bit of doubt sets in like concrete. It is none of my business what happened between TFaoro and Blue Chip but we all sign on to this Forum seeking or giving advice on our trucks. We praise the vendors that go the extra mile to help us and we do not forget the ones that we had bad dealings with. The message gets out. As I said in my first post, Blue Chip Diesel has put a lot of good information free to the public. Blue Chip as all vendors have bad days occasionally but I would say you get what you pay for with any of them. I still appreciate all the advice and encouragement passed along to me from Chip Fisher; in addition, I need to thank Michael Nelson and the members of this Forum for bringing me on board. The Forum advice not only made it easier to work on my Cummins, it gave me confidence and determination to do my best. You can see the good in anyone if you look hard enough and that’s what this Forum does, looks for the good.

Ok, I need to jump in here. Chip is very much alive at Blue Chip just retired and not on the phone as much as he was. You can still reach him by calling and selecting option #8. This news is from Tom at Blue Chip Diesel and he quoted this from Chip, “Chip had said many times that the operating environment has EVERYTHING to do with life expectancy of a VP44. Long time of no use, long idle periods, and start stop start stop are all bad.” I also have a Premium Special x VP44 pump that is now 2 years old. I made several calls to Chip with no issues at all. He did all that he could to explain the function and installment and believe it or not I can read and did read all the info for installation but still had some questions it being my first one. I understand what you are saying as well going through 5 pumps, two of which are Blue Chip before an Industrial Injection VP44 worked. What was wrong with the other 3 pumps that failed and what did you do different before or after the Industrial Injection pump was installed. I would like to have all of the facts before I start running someone in the ground (other posts). It’s obvious that Blue Chip (Chip Fisher) isnot popular among some of the members mostly because of price. I didn’t buy a Blue Chip to spend a lot of money but at the time 2 ½ years ago Chip Fisher was the only vendor I found that sold a VP44 with a new computer and that’s what I was looking for. A few weeks ago, I noticed that Industrial Injection (?) now sells a VP44 with a new computer and that equates to ZERO heat cycles. The first thing I was told on a Forum is I screwed up buying a pump with advanced timing and maybe I did because I can’t use a tuner with timing but according to Chip “you can always add more timing if needed” now I don’t fully understand the timing issues or how many degrees timing will advance on a Cummins 24 valve diesel engine but I am learning, a good recommendation on a Factory Service/Repair Manual would be a great help. One last comment, Chip does have a ton of information available for anyone who needs it along with other vendors who share presentations, videos, and written documentation to educate the public when working on their own vehicles, for that I would personally like to say Thank you, keep up the great work.

Mopar1973Man, I’m glad I saw this post. For one, there is no other forum like the one you created. It is like a big family of members. Personally you should make money off this site. No one knows the sacrifice you have made over the years to put keep it going. I’ll bet there isn’t a single member, rich or poor that would spend the time to help others like you have. It’s more than a note book of repairs, pictures, and call me if I can help! You do have a lot of free loaders and it all comes out as soon as a dollar amount is established. I’m on Social Security and you know I give beyond what is required every opportunity I can. The knowledge on your site is tremendous, and I am also thanking those close to you that have contributed so much in knowledge and articles. I usually sit back and read everything because I feel awkward replying to a thread or article. But I don’t mind being vocal now because it’s time you to stand up and put your foot down and tell all the free-loaders not to let the door hit them on the way out. You have given your knowledge away and not even received a thank you. You have given more than any donor has since the doors were opened until the current just in what you have shared with us. The money you have saved me in repairs is much appreciated and I will continue to give beyond what you ask to keep this forum alive. I am going to find you a vendor, and I will pay for that vendor to advertise on your forum for 1 year. It will take me till July to save $350.00 but that is what I am going to do and I would expect this vendor to renew his advertisement on his own just based on the volume of customers he will get from Mopar1973Man.com. I don’t have much but one thing for certain, you can never call me cheap, I pay my way and what I give in donations usually covers the free-loaders that don’t. Don’t let these individuals pull you down and delegate authority to your BoD to get the rest you need to carry on. Thank you MoparMom for what you have contributed to your son, it has helped each and every one of us. Best Regards For the Best Forum Online,

hope you find a solution to solve the starting issues when cold. I am having the same issue, just started a couple of days ago but will not start even after being warmed up. Like you said when it is right you can't get off the key fast enough. Now it cranks for 10 to 20 seconds before starting. One other difference I noticed with mine is at an idle, the RPMs drop suddenly every 15 seconds just enough to show the needle drop then the engine picks it back up again. I also have a lot of white smoke when first starting it. No leaks or indications anywhere that I can find. My VP44 is a Blue Chip Special X installed 2 years ago with about 10K miles on it. I also pulled the in tank pump adding an extension to the screen, very clean modification that has worked great. I added a Raptor 95 gph pump back on the block. Don't know the fuel pressure, I bought an idiot light to indicate low pressure but after talking to MoparMan (M. Nelson) I need some good mechanical fuel pressure, pyrometer, etc., hooked up. My health issues have held me back but things are turning around for me, thank you Jesus, and I plan on correcting all of this. After reading your post and the replies from other members I might have a leaking injector. I am going to replace them anyway so I might upgrade to the FASS Titanium Pump and new after market 1/2 inch draw straw kit. Did you solve your problem? Was it an injector tube or something else? Thank you.

No it wasn't military, and I am trying to find Mr. Clark. I hope he is still with us, it would be good to see him and talk with him. He's from Mississippi but lives in Semmes or Wilmer Alabama. I wouldn't be surprised if he is still building old pre-computer Dodge Trucks. The engine I had was cranked up but you couldn't tell until you drove it. Beyond my skills because when i put a bad boy dodge together back then the cam always was a dead give a way. I was in my twenties and you know how full of crap some twenty year olds could be, including me. I am determined to locate Mr. Clark and when I do maybe I can close this crazy story about white stars. Thank you for your input, every little bit helps putting a plan together.