Timburrr

Awesome. Thanks a lot. So if I understand correctly the existing wire from the driver's side battery to the PDC is enough but I can add another 6 gauge wire from the driver's side battery to where the alternator lead was? I'm underslept lately. Hoping to start this project in a couple of hours.

I've seen the article on the PCM protection and I definitely plan on doing this, thanks! One more question: When I remove the main alternator + lead from the PDC and run it straight to the passenger side battery, I assume there is enough wiring capacity to supply the PDC with all the amperage it needs without issues? I haven't looked around yet, I'm going to see if I can do it today or tomorrow, but it occurred to me last night laying in bed that there must be lots of positive side wiring for me to be able to take away the alternator wire and still have the PDC have all the capicity it needs? I hope I phrased that clearly.

Thank you very much. Makes perfect sense, I always opt to put in an engineered weak link than not. Keep a couple spare fuses in the glove box. Won't get it done tonight but hopefully over the next few days. At least the snow is almost gone and we're just back to our normal non-stop rain! Haha

Maybe someone can help me out real quick. Was going to do the W-T mod tonight but ended up being busy and wasn't able to get into it. Hoping to have time tomorrow night. I see mention of 150 amp fuses in the comments on Michael's article but I don't see where to put it. My understanding is put it somewhere inline on the alternator charge cable that gets rerouted from the PDC to the passenger side battery? Maybe for now I am better off leaving the charge wire alone so it can remain fused through the PDC? I think I understand the rest of the mod but I am planning on doing it at work if its not too busy and don't want to get stranded at work...

Sorry, I should have included that. I have owned the truck for 100,000 miles. I bought the truck from my wife's aunt when her uncle passed away and she gave me a big folder of receipts and it didn't have an injection pump. I forget how long he owned it for. A few years for sure. The pump did not look like a rebuild, it had the Bosch engraving on it and didn't say reman. it said made in Germany. I took pictures of the pump to make sure I had a record of all the numbers on it etc. When the original pump died I did the swap myself and after calling around, I dealt with a diesel injection shop (who has been very good to deal with) and since Bosch recently stopped remanning pumps themselves he went through his distributor who told him their source for pumps does it to Bosch to specs the way Bosch did. He has previously only dealt with factory Bosch. There were two diesel injection shops I talked to that both said to pay for one with a new PSG on it and that their suppliers put new PSG's on it. there was a couple hundred dollars difference so I went with the slightly less one. Both those injection shops don't work on vehicles they strictly do injection system work and sell parts. When I took my truck to the diesel shop to have them do the work, he said he likes Blue Chip diesel pumps. He think's the issue has been two bad pumps. Both the injection shop and the diesel repair shop have great reputations and have been very good to deal with. (Aside from the pumps dying). At this point I am operating under the idea maybe the distributor misrepresented how the pumps were rebuilt? I don't know. It's just been a lot of frustration at a very busy and difficult time. I'm thinking about selling the truck to be honest. Basically my biggest concern was that my truck was the issue (I'm not a huge believer in coincidences) and the diesel shop said the truck side seems good. My understanding is as long as the VP44 is fed slippery fuel at sufficient pressure and flow that the mechanical side is happy, and as long as its receiving correct VDC and is grounded good that the electrical side is happy. Correct? So that is to say an APPS acting up would not actually harm a VP44 it would just make the truck act funny? I have no reason to believe the APPS is bad, it has been super smooth throttle. I was just concerned my truck was having an electrical issue that was harming the pumps and I'm not sure where to check to make sure the electrical side was all happy.

Okay so I just got my truck back last night. Seems to be running good. Sorry I have been absent, I have absolutely no spare time its a struggle to get sleep right now. A week and a half and I get a little break though, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. July 18: Driving (towing a flatdeck trailer but probably not relevant) Pulling up to a red light truck starts to idle super wonky and then dies. Pull the following codes: P0251 P0252 P1688 There was also these codes that I think were probably old because I can't even remember the last time I had scanned my truck and they did not return: P0234 Overboost P1693 fault in companion P0122 tps 1 circuit low P1682 charge system output low July 26: New VP44 in and it seems a little off. Idles at about 875 (truck used to idle at 800) and seemed to have a random miss after the truck got hot (drove the truck home and noticed when I got home) Aug 11: Put in new injectors and quill tubes just in case they were the issue and they had at least 100,000 miles on them. No change I think it was Aug 17th that I went to drive to work and it had really really low power and got codes P0216 Aug 28 Put in new Injection pump. Seems mostly okay but when coming off throttle the RPM would drop down to high 600 or so before bouncing back up to 800. Didn't seem to have quite full power or build boost great. Otherwise ran okay. Also the mileage guestimator seemed off quite a bit. Didn't change much whether coasting down a long hill or climbing a long hill. Nov 4 truck dies while driving home from work. Just stalled out while I was cruising. Because I was starting school the following week and had lots of work to do I got it towed to a really good shop about an hour away. I will ask them what codes there were, I forgot to ask. Said it was the electronic side of the pump that failed. I'm sorry I can't find odometer notes. I know the first replacement pump I barely drove the truck. definitely less than 1000 miles. Maybe just a few hundred. The second replacement pump maybe tops a couple thousand miles? All highway driving to and from work (about an hour drive each way) The shop I took it to is known as THE diesel shop to go to. Very knowledgeable and honest. There seems to be a theory from talking to a few people that there's a good chance the rebuilder isn't putting new computers on each pump as they kinda led on that they were doing. I did ask them to check over the electrical for the pump and they said there was good voltage and good ground, they said everything on the truck side seems good. I'm hoping to put the Timbo APPS in very shortly. Are there any actions I should take immediately? I do really appreciate all the thought and effort people put in to help each other solve problems here. Good people. Thanks again.

I couldn't quote for some reason but I haven't done the W-T mod or the TIMBO APPS yet. When I get my truck back I will try to do that as soon as I'm able. I'm not sure where the pumps came from. I believe a big rebuilder from the US. The diesel shop says he likes pumps from Blue Chip Diesel. Has anyone dealt with them? Being up in Canada it makes everything a bit more frustrating, slow, and expensive because we either have to deal with long distance shipping or lots of middle men. Other than the W-T Mod and the TIMBO APPS, what else should I do right away? I guess I will have to pierce wires to make sure the VP44 is getting appropriate voltage? Does anyone have advice on where I should start just to make sure everything is functioning properly? Thanks again guys.

I appreciate that but I don't want charity and won't accept any. That's incredibly generous of you but I would feel better if it was used towards someone that needs it more. I work hard and our bank account isn't over flowing but we don't need financial help. I was just venting that it died at a bad time where are getting snow and I'm back at school for 6 weeks (3.5 left to go). I would be really, really appreciative if I can get some guidance on solving the problems though! As of now there's not much I can do because my truck is in the capable hands of a good diesel shop. I'm really hoping I can get some advice on where to start verifying that my truck is not in someway harming the pump once my truck is back in my driveway. The shop is going to investigate things but as of now they said the failures have been different each time and there is a reasonable chance that I've had bad luck. woodruff key/timing gear keyway are good. I just really want to be proactive with making sure everything is good so I can go back to sleeping at night and trusting my truck. It's been incredibly reliably up until this point, largely due to the information provided from this group right here. Otherwise I wouldn't have though to do lift pumps, pressure gauges, run TCW3 with each tank etc. For that I am very thankful. I will get on that. In class right now. Will try to get this done sooner rather than later.

If I wasn't born with bad luck I'd have no luck at all. A few weeks ago I was driving home from school and the trucked died. Have been too busy to even find time to post on here. It was a few days before I started school again so I knew I wouldn't have time to touch it so I had it towed quite a ways to the diesel shop with the best reputation. They're super busy and backed up but said the computer on the pump failed. It sounds like the pump I got that was supposed to have a brand new Bosch PSG did not and had an old one. The last one likely did as well. Anyhow I'm waiting to hear back on how the procurement of a new pump goes. All of this happened when I'm back at school full time, working part time, trying to still help the wife with all the kids and snow is now forecast for the foreseable future Anyhow, once the truck has a new injection pump on it one way or another, I asked them to investigate if anything on my truck could be causing this. Two pumps going within 5 months seems fishy, but after the 1st pump went I had a shop check out my truck and they said everything was fine. I checked my alternator output and A/C ripple and both were good, so I think the alternator is not to blame. This shop has a great reputation, Everyone has great things to say about them. Is there anything I should specifically ask to have investigated? I asked them to check voltage to the VP44. I have read a lot of threads and articles when I'm taking a break from studying and have read about bad or shorted sensors causing issues, bad fuel pump relays, etc. One thing I know is good is the lift pump pressure. I have a BD FlowMax with primary and secondary filter and two gauges (one with an alarm) and the pressure is always in the recommended range. After the last failure I bumped the starter and it kicked on and made good pressure for the cranking period of 20 seconds or whatever it is. Once I get my truck back, what steps should I do double check everything? I'm in need of some advice and a morale boost haha. Thanks again for all the help.

I read somewhere about MAP sensor issues (and also crank position sensor) and might do those if other things don't make changes. Thanks. As soon as I have time going to do these. I've thought about this and asked the guy at the injection shop. Sounds like the place is on the ball. I took pics of my original pump numbers and the replacements if there's a way to check them. I was incredibly careful with lining it up. It was the first thing I checked on the replacement pump that failed. Key was totally fine. Even though it's super hard metal I also checked the keyway in the gear and it was also good. Thanks for all the help!

No codes now (yet? ). The code was from the first replacement pump. But it didn't throw a code immediately. I should also say that the first replacement pump went somewhere around 200 miles from install to when it had obviously failed.

I've been doing a ton of reading mostly on here and also on some other forms and still haven't got anywhere. I took my truck to a mechanic that is recommended here (former dodge dealership tech) and he took a look at it and thinks its fine. Just from intimately knowing the truck I politely disagree for the following reasons: When driving, if I put the clutch in or put it in neutral the RPMs drop to the high 600s/low 700s before bouncing back up to around 800 RPM If exhaust brake is activated it will sometimes stall then engine when clutching in to downshift (has never done this before) When warm, idle seems to have a very slight irregular miss Shows around 11% load at idle, seems a little underpowered, doesn't build boost like it used to Lift pump pressure seems to randomly fluctuate a bit. Can't find a common time, seems to be random. will be nice and high and under the same conditions 10 minutes later wil be 3 or 4 psi lower. Brief summary of events so you don't have to go back: Injection pump failure (no lift pump issue: BD Flowmax lift pump supplies good pressure about 15 psi when driving, always put in TC-W3 oil) Replace injection pump, fuel filters, etc. Truck seemed different right away (idled at around 875, random miss at idle when hot) Truck starts to smoke a bit at idle so did new stock Bosch injectors and connector tubes - no change Truck seems to lose 75% of power when I was going to drive to work - throws code P0216 Pump timing failure Injection pump warrantied Install new alternator just to eliminate AC noise (new alternator tested within acceptable mVAC) Install new pump and cummins camshaft sensor because its cheap and accessible with pump off Pump seems mostly okay but slightly off (symptoms listed above that I'm currently seeing) I'm really starting to get demoralized by this. I've put a ton of time and money into it. I'm probably going to try to book it into a diesel specialty shop but they book over a month away and I can't afford to pay top dollar for things that I can do myself first or are very time consuming (however with three jobs, a wife, and three kids time management is killing me lately). How does my current plan of attack sound? I've had a Timbo APPS waiting to get installed for over a year, so put that in just to eliminate APPS as a possible issue W-T Ground mod Do the VP44 hotwire test. If symptoms go away ECM is the suspect, If symptoms stay, fuel system is the suspect (injectors, injector lines, injection pump) Pull ECM connector, inspect for corrosion, check for continuity, maybe load test wires too? Time consuming At this point if nothing conclusive maybe send truck into diesel specialty shop? Unfortunately I will have a lot of questions along the way and I will really really appreciate help because this is out of my areas of knowledge (but I am putting a lot of time and effort into learning this stuff). I'm having troubles simply finding information to reference. Quickserve seemed to offer nothing on any 5.9 ISB engine number I put in (maybe a Dodge exclusivity agreement? But could be the license we had at school). In mid-November I go back to school for 6 weeks so my time and money problems will get tougher for a while. Thanks for all the input!

I have a spare I was just thinking that's the only other thing that was changed because the pump came with a new one. Maybe its got an issue and is restricting fuel. Another question: I didn't see much for available live data I guess due to the vintage of these trucks. Injection pump RPM and a few other basic ones but not much in there along the lines of useful data for this issue. Does anybody have any experience with this? It was interesting to see that 3 cylinder mode was something that could be turned on but I didn't mess around with it.

Thanks for posting this. I looked through it and from what I can tell it can only be either the woodruff key got marred and the timing is physically off between the shaft and timing gear or that the pump is bad. I have good lift pump pressure and everything else seems normal. Lift pump pressure is always 14+ and never over 17. DC volts has always been between 13.9 and 14.1. I did the AC noise check and got 0.041 VAC. Thanks Michael. I'm not an expert but I have done lots of homework on how to keep these trucks fairly happy. First thing I did when I bought the truck was the two things they all need: a new heater core and a good lift pump. I have a primary filter/water separator and a secondary filter that is the Donaldson and I think I remember it being 3 micron absolute. I still run it through the stock filter to have the water in fuel sensor in play and my pressure gauge is on post filter side. I put Stanadyne conditioner and ashless TCW3 2 stroke oil in with every tank. AC noise was 0.041 VAC so that's within tolerance. Lift pump reliably sends 14-17 psi depending on how much is flowing. I think my next step is to pull the VP44 and inspect the woodruff key and if it looks good put a new pump in. Does that sound about right? Maybe I can swap out the overflow banjo first? Thanks everyone for the help and insight!

Sorry guys was gone for the last couple days. Okay, so I scanned using a Launch X-431 V+. Came up with: BCM-Enternal ROM Tests Failure (not sure what this would be on the Body Control Module but I would be surprised if this was related) PCM - P0216 - Fuel Injection pump Timing Failure Cleared codes (but the BCM code said cleared by still present). Ran truck and they came back. This is making me think the likely culprits are: Bad injection pump (likely the electronic side) Woodruff key is either incorrect or damaged. I was very very careful lining up and installing the pump shaft to the timing gear so I would be absolutely shocked if the woodruff key got damaged. I did take a video of some live data and it was funny because the engine RPM and the injection pump RPM took turns being incorrect and at around 500 RPM. Alternator A/C ripple was measure at 0.041 VAC using a Fluke DVOM. I will see if I can find the time to figure out how to post a video to youtube. Right now I'm running on the hunch the pump is bad and I will have to replace it. Does anybody have any other directions to go? I will feel bad if I send a pump back and it turns out the problem is something else. (dealer has already got another one coming our way)

Truck: 1999 2500 Quadcab NV 4500 300,000 miles. What happened: I was driving to work and everything was fine until I pulled up to a red light then my truck could barely hold a very unsteady idle. CEL came on. Pulled off road and had it towed to my work. Pulled following codes: P0251 Injection pump fuel valve feedback P0252 Injection pump fuel valve stuck P1688 VP44 Fuel Injection Pump Module Internmal membory or A/D error P1693 Fault in companion module P0122 TPS sensor 1 circuit low P1682 charge system output low Some of these were probably very old, I can't remember the last time I did a scan. I should also mention I have a BD FlowMax lift pump with primary and secondary filter and two pressure gauges and it runs around 15-17 psi. Cleared and rescanned and the injection pump codes and companion module came back. The VP44 had been on my mind for a while. It was at the very least 150-200K miles old, probably older. Bought a new VP44 and installed it. Truck fired up and ran fine with the following exceptions: Idled at 864 RPM and it used to idle at 800RPM without fail. When I turned on the A/C my Edge Insight used to register a small engine load but after new I.P. install showed 0% load with A/C on. EGT was a little higher which I attributed to a possibly higher fueling rate with a nice new pump. After the engine was hot, it would have a slightly unsteady idle with a seemingly random miss every 1-3 seconds I talked to the diesel shop and he put a note on my file with the condition and we discussed that it could be a connector tube was unhappy have being disturbed from a long sleep where it was or possibly an injector. Injectors also had at the very least 150-200K miles, probably much more. Could be original for all I know. I decided to install new injectors and new connecting tubes. Before they came in, I didn't drive my truck for 7 or 8 days and when I started it up to go to work it was smoking and idling a little funny. I figured maybe a dribbling injector let some fuel down and figured it would clean up. Got a few hundred meters [yards] down the road and it seemed to lose about 75% of its power so I turned around and parked it. Seemed to go back to normal power once or twice. Since then the injectors came in and I installed them and its still got the same problem. Right now my thoughts are the following: Probably the injection pump. I'm thinking probably bad pump but there is a small chance that the woodruff key could have marred a bit on install but I was very careful when lining up the shaft to the injection timing gear. Note: I was INCREDIBLY careful to keep everything clean. Thoroughly cleaned the engine before working on it. Changed the fuel filters and flushed the whole system up to the VP44 before connecting the fuel line to the VP44. Flushed about half a gallon or more of fuel. Possibly a crankshaft or camshaft sensor Possibly (but hopefully not) ECM or maybe even PCM Maybe APPS making it do weird stuff? Head gasket? Hopefully not. Cooling system not bubbling, no coolant in oil or oil visible in coolant. My plan of attack is: Scan the truck with my boss's good scanner. If there's codes then see where that leads. If no codes MAYBE change the crankshaft and camshaft sensors. They are a real bugger to get to and I don't like changing things for fun, but maybe? What are the odds they are giving bad data and not throwing codes? My understanding is if the VP44 and and the camshaft position sensor disagree you get a code. Pull injection pump. Assess woodruff key. Maybe send it back. Injection shop is going to contact the rebuilder. Not sure how to diagnose ECM or PCM other than by process of elimination.... Any thoughts, as always, are very appreciated!

Thanks for all the help. Very appreciated. Went well I just went slow. It was nice to get the firing order, valve overlap etc back in my head. Now I'm continuing my journey of problem solving which will require a new thread. Thanks everyone.

By this you mean torque the HP fuel line to the crossover tube which seals it to the injector and HP fuel line, correct? and then VP44 end of HP fuel line after is my understanding.

Thanks a lot! I remember reading something about having the injector hold down bolts finger tight then torque the high pressure line. On the lines used for bleeding air should I maybe only torque part way? Like 15-20 ft-lbs instead of 28? I read to not torque those until after bleeding somewhere to avoid distorting and not getting a good seal after bleeding. Thanks again!

Truck is a 1999 quad cab manual trans with high mileage. Did my VP44 a couple weeks ago and after its hot it gets a bit of a random miss at idle. I think there's a good chance one or more of the connector tubes didn't seat back in properly. Since the injectors have 150K, 200K or even more miles on them I'm going to do new injectors and new connector tubes (I have no record of them ever being done and I've put 100K on it myself and the previous owner didn't ever have them done maybe they are even originals!). While I'm in there I'll check and adjust valve lash. I'm not super confident on this. The only time I've done injectors and valve lash was doing a quick ISX teardown and rebuild with a couple partners in school. If anybody has any good tips it would be greatly appreciated. My plan is this: -Remove injector lines in the two bundles -Rotate engine to TDC #1 on compression (using balancer bolts since I either have a pay big money for a barring tool or wait a week for delivery for an affordable one) -Do Injectors #1, 3, 5 (I read somewhere its easier if you take off the exhaust bridge?) -Do Intake valves on #1, 2, 4 and Exhaust valves on #1,3,5 -Rotate to #6 TDC compression -Do injectors #2, 4, 6 -Do Intake valves on #3, 5, 6 and Exhaust on #2, 4, 6 -Give the engine a few rotations by hand to make sure everything seems happy -Leave #1, 3, 4 injectors lines loose for bleeding then torque after bleeding procedure. Treat me like I know nothing! I'm guessing I won't have to blow out any fuel lines before getting in there. How do you guys pull the injectors? Heel bar? Do you ever have the copper seals get suck in the head? Fish out with a pick? Any nicer ways to rotate the engine? Some people use nut on Alternator it sounds like? Big wrench on fan and turn counter-clockwise? I considered using the nut on the VP44 but don't want to accidentally over-torque that, although it has a big torque value from what I remember. Tighten high pressure lines on head end first? except #1, 3, 4? Any and all tips would be super helpful. I haven't been on here in a long time. Several jobs and several kids, I don't have a moment to think it seems. Big shoutout to Michael for getting my account set back up - there was some glitch-craft preventing me from renewing my subscription.

Thanks for the reply's. The weird thing about these is there will only be 6 settings as the flat has to lock in on the outside edge. I put them back in the way I think they were (I really wish I had made note of how they were). Alignment feels not bad but I'm going to get it checked. I have to take the passenger side axle back out because my oil seal started leaking . Probably just got a speck of grime in there but for the cost of a seal I'll put a new one in At least its the easy side! Thanks again

I believe these are called camber wedges the upper ball joint sits in. They do appear to be eccentric. I think I remember the orientation they were in but not 100% sure. Got conflicting info on if camber is even adjustable on my truck (248 model front axle). Is there a direction to face them that is kinda standard or just do what I think they were facing before? I think one was facing gap facing 90* into truck and other side was 90* away from truck. Thanks for any help! Finally putting things back together on a full front end service.

I have had the Timbo APPS in my glove box for a couple weeks here and hoping to have time to get in later this week. Thanks everyone!

Thanks guys. Sorry for the late reply and thank yous on this. Went out of town to see the wife's family for the weekend and we all got sick. I understand the exhaust brake is activated by the IVS but my understanding is the IVS is triggered as recognizing being in idle based on APPS reading. I've noticed my APPS will jump around, sometimes as much as maybe 10%. Not always but a bit. If I'm idling it will periodically blip to 4, 5 maybe up to 8% for an instant between mostly resting at 0%. Also, my alternator reading on my edge bounces between 13.6 and 14.0 but is usually 13.8/13.9. Since previously the problem was fixed with my new batteries it seemed logical to me that it was alternator related. First step will be as recommended try to reset the APPS voltage. If not I will either go through the APPS problem solving steps or just put a Timbo APPS in? Can I confirm my exhaust brake will work with it? Thanks again fellas

The root issue I am having is I am getting the APPS low voltage code. How I realized there was an issue is my BD exhaust brake intermittently will not work at low rpms (and it changes minute to minute what rpm it will cut out at, but usually around 1000 rpms). I checked codes through my Edge Insight and got the APPS low voltage code. So right now, I am leaning towards thinking it is alternator related, but my initial quick test in the parking lot at work doesn't agree with that. I'm going to break up my post into each little point, otherwise I ramble on a long confusing paragraph. Previously, my exhaust brake acted up my batteries tested as being poor to marginal, so I replaced them and my exhaust brake acted completely normal again up until now (I believe that was last summer). AC noise check came in at .022 VAC. I don't know if I believe this though. I had everything turned off (stereo, lights etc) but I didn't unplug the fuse to my A-pillar gauge set or my exhaust brake (but the switch was turned off so I don't think this would be an issue). Also, my multimeter is a hobbyist one: a fluke 17b+ which is an asian market unit, not a solid unit like a fluke 87, and it doesn't read true RMS so my understanding is these readings won't be true. Can this be confirmed? Do I need to get someone with a better unit to test the AC noise? Did I have enough accessories turned off? Alternator voltage came in at 13.7-13.8 at idle. Before turning on the truck battery voltage was 12.71 (Batteries are about a year old and are high quality batteries). Exhaust brake ties into the idle verification system and then I had to manually set the sensitivity on the controller so when I push on the accelerator the exhaust brake kicks off. I guess I should check this connection, because it could be poor I guess? The records from the previous owner (My wife's uncle who passed away) show that the APPS was replaced around 7 years ago or so. Maybe another one bites the dust? I haven't had a chance to find it again but I think I found a detailed flow chart on here somewhere to diagnose APPS. My understanding is I can try to manually put the APPS back into its stock voltage range and the results seem mixed by doing this? Obviously if APPS is bad, purchase and put in a Timbo APPS? Hopefully its not the PCM? I understand they are very expensive and hard to find and sometimes don't even transfer well to a different truck? What's my next move, attempt to diagnose the APPS and/or re calibrate the voltage? Thanks as always!