Clutch not disengaging..

[ISX]

I don't know anything about the clutch pedal or how to adjust it. Lately I have had to turn the engine off to get it to go into any gear when stopped. Has happened yesterday and today now. It's been flawless up till now so I think it just needs to be tightened up, but how do I do this? Do I just need to bleed it?

[Mopar1973Man]

If it like mine there is no adjustment... It just means its time to do both Master and Slave of the clutch system. http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/clutch-hyd/clutch-hyd.htm

[Wild and Free]

It could also be a bad pilot bearing. If it is siezing to the input shaft a bit it will cause the same issue. Depending if it is a bearing or bushing style either can do it. but the bearing style is more prone to causing issues.

[ISX]

Well it has only done it once both days, but when it does it and I try and put it in gear, the synchros start to spin and the engine rpm starts to drop a little. It has done it after driving it, and getting to my parking spot and trying to back up, no go, and this morning it wouldn't go in after letting it sit 20 min. I am pretty sure I have the bearing style. I did power wash around the bell housing to get rid of all the black crap, might have washed some of the grease off that bearing. I might have to check that out, if it's fine I guess it's new master and slave.

[Mopar1973Man]

W&F is right that it could be a pilot...(Good catch!) As for the type I'm almost sure its a bearing style... At least mine was... Compare the SBC to the Stock flywheel. Now the stock pilot bearing was a roller bearing kind of like U joints are...

[ISX]

Think I got the same thing, 13" upgrade and all. Might have to take the engine back out

[Wild and Free]

The stock needle bearing pilots are the worst as the needle rollers actually ride on the input shaft as they get dry they knurl the shaft and then get rusty and start to bind up. Similar to a dead u-joint. The enclosed rollers can and do get dry and fail over time also, this will cause the pilot bearing inside race to actually weld itself to the shaft then it will spin the entire bearing inside the flywheel. I have seen it happen a few times. That is how I know to throw these odd ball scenarios out there.

[ISX]

Well I have a 3 day weekend that will be hot as hell so I think I will throw a new bearing in and see if anything changes since it's only $10. Part # for pilot bearing on those 13" jobbers is 1635-2RS if anyone wants to know. If it still screws up then I will do the master/slave. I know all too well about needle bearing failure, but I have only had this SB clutch in for about 40k miles, so I can't believe it is already screwing up. Might not be it though, but $10 is cheap enough to make sure it's not that.

Make that $5 http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0474470&ucst=t

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

Another clue! I was on a big hill and I backed up and made a reverse U-ey so I was going backwards up the hill, and I push in clutch and it stops rolling backwards and starts rolling forwards, after moving an inch forward, something grabbed and I heard a little squeaking and the engine acted like it just grabbed the clutch, like when it's in neutral and you let off the clutch the engine drops a couple rpms to turn the clutch, well that's what it acted like. So I think it is the bearing and backing up was fine but when it started going forwards, all the ate up bearings grabbed, kinda like a pipe wrench only working one way. What do you guys think?

[ISX]

Is there a way to test that master/slave? Today it got to the point of driving with the clutch to the floor.. I am thinking it isn't a bearing anymore and might just be the clutch hydraulics. But it's weird because I was at a stoplight today, and it has been screwing up constantly so I just hold the brakes and let it do it's whining, well light turns green and I let off clutch, but it only goes halfway before I feel almost all tension relieve, I keep letting off and eventually the pedal regains tension in an instant, like it popped back to life and I let it out the rest of the way. I don't want to buy the wrong thing now or take the trans out if I don't have to, but it's pretty undriveable now, from a stop anyways, I can sync it just fine from there, but it grabs and lets go a lot so it jerks the hell out of the truck while I'm sitting at a stop light, banging the gears, I leave it in neutral most of the time but if the clutch is gripping good enough I can't get it in gear so I have to turn the truck off.. so what do you guys think it is now? I am constantly feeling the tension of the clutch changing. So back to original master/slave idea. But there must be a way to test it?

[guesswho512]

read mopar1973man write up about the master/slave and follow it careful and take your time...i pulled the whole system out and bleed the air out of each part as i put it to gether. i didn't use a bench like mopar1973man did. i had someone hold it. some people said they had to pull it a second time to get all the air out(i did not have to). when i put the system back in...the clutch grabbed so high on the pedal, i almost killed it backing up. the pedal is slowly making its way back to the floor. but i didn't replace anything...only removed, bleed, and re-installed. this was around jun-july of last year.

[Mopar1973Man]

Is it possible you broke the friction plate with the spring pack??? This made the clutch drag in all gear 1st through 5th and including Reverse... Then always made a popping noise on engagement.

[Mopar1973Man]

The stock needle bearing pilots are the worst as the needle rollers actually ride on the input shaft as they get dry they knurl the shaft and then get rusty and start to bind up. Similar to a dead u-joint. The enclosed rollers can and do get dry and fail over time also, this will cause the pilot bearing inside race to actually weld itself to the shaft then it will spin the entire bearing inside the flywheel. I have seen it happen a few times. That is how I know to throw these odd ball scenarios out there.

Here is a few pics...

[ISX]

I'm thinking it is definitely the master/slave. It has been getting worse for several months, I always figured it was just synchros being crap but now that I think about it, it was barely engaging the clutch, enough to not go into gear very easily, now it grabs enough that it won't go into gear. So I think the master/slave has been degrading all this time and is now so mad that it does what it's doing now. I don't have the popping noise when it engages or anything. I'm going to bleed it this weekend and see if that changes anything at all. It's full of fluid, always has been, but who knows.

[ISX]

So today, clutch completely gave out. The pedal anyways. It lets the clutch grip enough to hold engine rpm, therefore it's basically useless to even try to use the clutch. So I got home, took the slave cylinder off, and pushed in the actuator, very easy to do. So I then notice the fluid moves substantially when I let the actuator release all the way, it almost sucks it dry leaving about 1/4" of fluid in the reservoir. When I press it all the way in with my hand, it rises way up. So I put it back into the truck and pushed the clutch all the way in. There is absolutely ZERO movement in the fluid. Nobody has said anything about determining if the slave/master is bad by watching the fluid so maybe this method isn't accurate? I would think it would be a sure-fire sign that it's junk since the fluid has to go somewhere when you press in the clutch, and I am seeing no movement at all. So what's the verdict on this? I'm going to replace the master/slave now but just wanted to know why this method is never talked about..?

[guesswho512]

i think its like the hydraulics on an old tractor. the seals get so wore that nothing happens(or doesn't move much). the pump is still moving fluid, but since it flows right past the seals, it doesn't move the arm. my is doing the similar thing. slowly getting to the floor@ 175k

[ISX]

The master cylinder had some surface oil on it. So I'm guessing it was part of it. I ordered both of them from napa around $165. I got the entire hydraulics ripped out. Only took 10 min so I'm thinking I did something wrong. I usually have a minimum of half an hour in everything so I don't know what went wrong. I couldn't believe the master just twisted and then it was free to be pulled out. That must be where I lost 20 min. :shrug:Master will be here tomorrow slave they had to order straight from manufacturer so maybe next week.

[ISX]

So put in new master and slave.. It's exactly the same. The clutch is half as hard to push down ever since whatever happened while I was sitting at the stop light and the time that the clutch pedal became completely useless. Soo, looks like I will be dropping the tranny. Probably today, probably at the end of this post

[ISX]

Got it out, and, well, you'll see. You can see where the spring was rubbing the flywheel, you can see wear marks all around the springs too, I have no idea what caused it. I looked up the clutch and is in fact rated for 400HP/800TQ, I might have more TQ than that but not sure if it would tear it up like that :stuned:So that also explains the chinging sound. Throwout bearing and pilot bearing are both trashed. But, atleast we found the problem :lol:To get it out, I took the top and front bolts out of both engine mount brackets, then jacked the front of the engine up. I didn't think it would work but at the very end of my hope, the splines had ended so it finally dropped out while the shaft scraped the floor of the cab, so thank god for that.

[Wild and Free]

Generally shock loading will cause that to happen either on hard launches or harsh down shifts with a load or trailer ect. That one isn't too bad, I have seen many with the hub completely torn from the clutch lining section.

[ISX]

I take off so slow I could top off a glass of water and not spill a drop. I figured it had something to do with being a shock absorbing thing but just don't see how it could happen to me when I accelerate so slow. I might floor it in 4th or 5th but there is no jerkiness to that. :shrug:I'm thinking of getting a valair one or something. Heard they are a little better/cheaper. Not sure though. It sure did have enough fun with the spring though. Might have resurface the flywheel.I'm thinking one of the bearings went bad, and I kept driving it, and it "caught" the clutch a lot when I was just sitting there. It would catch so good sometimes that it would stall the engine, and of course it did all this instantly while I sat at stoplights. I started just putting it in N until it turned green but even then it would start grabbing the gear when I put it back in. So maybe that had something to do with it.