No crank No go.

[John 98 Cummins]

17 hours ago, IBMobile said:

 

Dont know.   in the relay slot for starter relay, i see 4/5 slots have working electric  terminals.  one terminal slot is empty.

ignition off - one terminal has ( #30)  12v.

ignition on,-   only #30 has 12 v.. 

ignition on or off,  what appears to be 86 and 87 go to ground.   my meter was cold, and i  didnt get an accurate resistance.  

slot 87A appears to be  the empty one with no connector.  

 

photo below of the electrical box, the slot on the right is the one that the starting relay goes to. 

 

as i said earlier, i swapped the relay from the trailer relay spot,, and still had the problem.  i am unsure if the trailer relay  operates the same functions, though.  

 

 

Edited January 15 by John 98 Cummins

[IBMobile]

Power all the time at terminal 30, good.

Power at terminal 86 when key is turned to the start position, good.

Terminal 85 shows continuity to ground, good.

Terminal 87 is grounding through the starter motor solenoid. good.

Since you have been starting the engine by using a wire direct from the battery to the solenoid the starter motor is then assumed to be good. Using a jumper wire briefly connect terminal 30 and 87; the starter motor should engage.  If yes, then relay is bad.  If no, then there is a problem with wire/connectors between terminal 87 in the PDC and the starter solenoid.  

[John 98 Cummins]

Except, i am not getting power to 86 with key on.    86  gives continuity to ground. 

I will double check again tomorrow if that is correct.. 

according to my diagram i made,    86 and 87  both had continuity to ground.

85 had neither voltage nor continuity.. 

I will see if i can check the ignition switch,  see if it is sending out 12 volts. 

connect #30 to #87 briefly to start. 

[John 98 Cummins]

Ok,  I just tested the ignition switch.. all the wires seemed to be correct, except the YELLOW one,  when i turn the key to start it,  the yellow should give 12 volts i believe.

I am just about to remove the 3 security torx and look a little bit closer.    2nd gen ignition switch replacement.  hmm.  

[IBMobile]

3 minutes ago, John 98 Cummins said:

the yellow should give 12 volts i believe.

Yes, the yellow wire supplies 12V to terminal 86 of the starter relay when key turned to start position.  I think you found the problem in the ignition switch. 

[John 98 Cummins]

yes, i was reading another thread on replacing it.   looks like the keyed cylinder may be ok.  and its the actual ignition assembly.  available at Rockauto.  

any tips on replacement ?     Odd though the way the problem started...  with tapping the starter to make it go.  doesnt make sense.   

I jumped 12 v to the yellow wire and #85   finally had 12 volts in the relay box,    So,  i better order the ignition before pulling the lock out.    Some of the videos i have watched,  show it is the key assembly that has a broken piece to it,  as opposed to the ignition assembly..   how do you rekey a new key assembly to my old key?

before i ordered an assembly, i checked for continuity on the switch where the yellow and red wire would go,  and i got continuity.    the yellow wire terminal did look a little corroded, so maybe it was just a bad connection at the yellow wire.. that's odd that it would be corroding.. i wonder what would cause that. 

 

Edited January 16 by John 98 Cummins

[Tractorman]

I wrote this post almost 24 hours ago, but an ice storm nearby shut off the internet service, so I could not post.  Even though it appears that you have solved your problem, I am posting now anyway.

 

I would use a test light with an incandescent bulb for all my tests.  This test light will place a small electrical load on the circuit being tested and clearly show whether or not the circuit is working properly.  The tests are simple and reliable.  For part of the testing I would use a jumper wire.

 

For the following tests, use the wiring diagram to follow along for each test to help you understand the test and the test results.

 

Make sure the transmission is in "Park" and the park brake is set.  Ignition key "Off".

 

First test.  This test will check continuity between the starter relay terminal #87 and the starter solenoid.  Remove the starter relay.  Use a jumper wire and connect one end to terminal #87 of the relay base and the other end to the positive battery post.  The starter should operate.  If it doe not, then continuity between terminal #87 and the starter relay has been lost.

 

Second test.  This test will check continuity between the starter relay and ground via the transmission neutral safety switch.  Connect a test light clamp to the the positive battery post.  Touch the other end to the #85 terminal of the relay base.  The lamp should glow.  If the lamp does not glow, then have a helper move the transmission selector around during the test.  If the lamp occasionally glows, then the transmission linkage needs adjustment or the neutral safety switch needs be replaced.

 

Third test.  The test will check continuity between the battery, through Fuse #9 (30 amp), and terminal #30 in the relay base.  Use a jumper wire and connect one end to terminal #30 and the other end to terminal #87 in the relay base.  The starter should operate.  If it does not, then check the condition of the 30 amp fuse and wiring between terminal #30 and the battery.

 

Fourth and last test.  This test will check continuity between terminal #85 and the ignition switch "start" terminal.  Connect a test light clamp to the negative battery post.  Touch the other end to terminal #86 in the relay base.  Have a helper turn the ignition switch to the "start " position.  The test lamp should glow.  If it does not, then continuity has been lost between terminal #85 and the start terminal on the ignition switch.

 

Performing these tests should find the problem.

 

- John