SASQCH

I'm now certain that the PowerMax went out. The display will not give accurate readings for boost and EGT. At times it will shut off altogether then come back on and work for five minutes or so then go way off again. I've checked and double checked all the connections in the harness to no avail. Anyway I've made it to my destination in Montana, 2,400 miles of it (since the big BANG) without the PowerMax turned on and the truck is running fine. It just don't have the power I normally have with the PowerMax so I'm shifting out of OD a lot more than I usually do. When I get back home I'm going to make some changes to the truck setup. Before I left I put on a HX35/40 with a 14 CM2 exhaust housing. I'm finding it way to slow to spool and smokes like crazy when the engine rpm's are below 1500. so I'm going to put on the 12 CM2 housing and see how it works. I also think that I'm going to replace the edge +80 stage II injectors with 275s to try and get back some of the lost mileage. I'm averaging about (haven't done the hand calcs yet) about 13-14 with the 8K load. That's down about 1.5 2 mpg from the trip last fall. Heck when I pulled the 17k trailer on one trip I was getting 12.5 mpg with the stock injectors and just the PowerMax when it was working, and I drove faster. So I'm thinking that the +80 injectors and the smarty tuner and the HX35/40 are giving less mileage and less overall performance than the stock injectors with the HX35 and 14 CM2 housing and the smarty. With the PowerMax (that works) I have the economy of the closer to stock setup but can add the power when I want it. It's more the best of both worlds for towing. Guess I'll find out for sure when I get back to Alaska and make the changes.

The reason I started this thread is because, with what I have on my truck (see sig), it was cutting out and coming back quite violently when using any PowerMax setting over 4 with the smarty on anything above stock. So I was thinking that they didn't play well together. As a result I called TST and had the discussion (first post) and was told that it's possible the plumger was running out of fuel. I had already checked everything else out. Well, I started on my trip to Montana with about 8K in tow. I kept the PM turned off as it seemed to cause some problems. Leaving TOK Alaska (about 350 miles into the trip) I got the bright idea to try the PM one more time as all other problems had gone away (including the stalling when shifting into drive - I now believe that was caused by winter fuel). I turned on the PM and set it on 3 then started to give it a little fuel. As soon as the box started over fueling the pump (green light on the box came on) there was a loud BANG from under the hood and the truck died. I coasted to the side of the road and tried to restart, nothing, tried again, nothing. Turned the key off for several minutes wondering what to do next. I tries another restart, it stumbled a couple of revolutions and started. It seemed to run perfectly, and has so far into the trip, and i'm in FT StJohn 1200 miles down the road from then. The PM has I've discovered quite literally lost it's mind. the displays of EGT and boost are erratic to say the least. At least I can somewhat monitor the boost with the SG II MAP reading. I'll let you know what and when I can. Jim

Yes, if what he told me is true, and my gut feel is that it is true, we could be rebuilding the VP44s ourselves if we could get the parts. (and had any special tools needed, as well as a road map of what bad things to look for) Jim

Had an interesting phone conversation with the owner of TST products today about the so vp44 fuel pump. He was a Cummins employee and has worked on and has had access to testing the vp44 and prior fuel pumps. He said that the high pressure side of the internal vane pump produces around 300 psi at 2200 rpm engine speed, and that the actual injection is done by a piston that creates the high pressure pulse and also directs it to the correct injector. This piston not only pushes the fuel to the injector but also rotates or spins to line up with the correct injector port in the VP44. He said that many of the pump failures are attributed to the piston ceasing from lack of adequate lubrication. He also said that when the HP is pushed to high levels by programmers and oversize injectors (100 hp and up) or stacking programmers with the larger injectors, this piston can suffer from an inadequate fuel supply being able to fill the piston for every time it fires the injector(s). This can cause the power to come and go in quick spurts under heavy loading and higher rpms, even with the FASS or airdog pumps of 100 gpm flow. It's not about the fuel to the vp44 this he said can happen with 15+ psi at the vp44 fuel inlet. He said that the hot-rod pumps that are built have different parts from Bosch that have a larger piston with more capacity, and that they no longer build them. He also said that when a vp44 is rebuilt that the pump does not have to be put on a test bench and programmed, that the parts are all connected to the electronics and programmed when they get them from Bosch. They have even taken the internals from one pump and put them into another with no reprogramming as long as the electronics are not taken apart and reassembled. It's like taking non volatile memory out of a computer and putting it back into another computer of the same configuration. So my question is how much hp have people been able to get from the stock so vp44 with injectors and stacked programmers without having apparent fuel starvation? Thanks Jim

Tell me about your truck. Is it auto or manual trans? What modifications does it have? Would be helpfull to put all that info into your signature like most others on the forum. I'm having a similar problem and I'm in Anchorage, we need to compare notes to perhaps find a common thread.

I tried that a few times and yes it still dies. Throw your ideas out here, they may spark other thoughts if nothing else.

Don't think I'll be able to tell you for sure because I also put on a HX35/40 turbo and a timbo APPS. So if there is a gain or loss I wouldn't know what item or what combination of items cause the gain or loss.

If you listen real close when it starts, it takes a second or so for the engine rpm to stabilize to the idle speed of 750ish rpm. If I shift it before the rpm settles down, it doesn't die. If I wait a second or two before the shift it dies. I don't plan to do anything more to solve this issue until I get back from Montana in about 3 1/2 weeks, don't have time right now. I'll see what happens on the trip with fuels through Canada and Montana.

Just took a video. I don't know how to post a vid on this site. PM me your email and I'll send it to you. http://s1015.photobucket.com/albums/af273/jimbowe43/videos/?action=view&current=985Dodgedieseldieswhenshiftedintodr.flv

Interesting thought I'll have to mull that one over for a while. I'm wondering if it may have to do with the quality of diesel we get here in Alaska. When I added injector cleaner (which lowers the flash point of the fuel) the stalling went away. Next week I'll be traveling to Montana and back with a load each way. I'll see if the fuel difference along the way makes a difference. Thanks Jim

Got the Timbo APPS today. Took me all of 15 minutes to install and set. Instructions are included as well as a torx screwdriver bit. Did an APPS reset. Truck starts and runs, idle speed hasn't changed.Still stalls when shifted into drive. :banghead:

Jacob is usps overnighting it to me so hopefully it will be here tomorrow. I will post how this all turns out.Hopefully, it will fix the issues I'm having.Thanks guys for all the help, both here and on the cummins forum.I typically post the same thing in both forums, surprising how the advice differs.

OK. The APPS data sticker says it should read 0.633 volts it reads 0.334. I found installation instructions for the apps sensor that says this about the idle adjustment screw. "Using a digital voltmeter, set the idle voltage by adjusting the idle stop screw. This screw also has Loctite on it from factory, so make sure the T20 torx bit is fully engaged into the head before attempting to turn it. If you think it may strip, carefully heat the screw area with a propane torch. This will soften the Loctite and allow it to turn. Only heat it for a couple of seconds at a time and attempt to turn the screw clockwise. After making the screw turn, measure the voltage. Plug the sensor into the factory harness. Using the paperclip provided, insert it in between the orange seal and the green wire on the back of the APPS connector. Push it in until it stops. Or you can measure the voltage on the blue wire with a black tracer in the factory plug, the same way, whichever is easier. Make sure the paperclip does not contact ground and then turn the ignition key to the ON position. Turn your voltmeter to the low voltage DC scale. Now read the voltmeter, it should read .60 - .67 volt. If it reads higher than that, turn the idle stop screw counter clockwise until the voltage is below .60 volt. Turn the idle stop screw clockwise until the voltage begins to rise, then turn the screw counterclockwise 1/2 turn and you are done with the adjustment." I tried the adjustment. I think my APPS is bad. When I try to turn up the voltage with the idle screw (clockwise) it don't change for several turns then it suddenly goes to 0.018. If I try to go the other way it goes to 0.334 again and don't change after that regardless of how far ccw I turn the screw. I'm suspecting that is the cause if the 750ish idle speed and the stalling when going into drive. I'm going to replace it with a timbo from JKIDD.

Replaced the overflow valve in Feb. No change.

Yup, got it on the truck. Easy install took about 1/2 hr, only had to take #1 injector line off the head. Seems to do what it claims, engine even sounds a little different, def runs a little cooler.

VP44 was replaced in AUG 2007 and has always had at least 13 psi fuel pressure and 2 cycle oil. Mike, you said in my other thread (Problems - Stalling when shifting to drive and hard starting when hot. Ideas?????) on this issue and other issues that have been fixed, referring to my idle speed of 745 rpm "The idle speed is low compared to mine at 880 RPMs and factory setting or programming is typically 850 RPM." What did you do to get your idle speed up that high and how did you resolve the issues with the validation switches? Thanks Jim

Can the idle speed on a 24 valve 2nd gen cummins be adjusted? If so how? My truck idles at 740-750 rpm, I would like it to idle around 800 rpm so it don't die when shifting into drive. The truck has a Low Stall TC and it is causing the truck to die when shifted into drive. If I hold the rpm to around 800 it don't stall. Does it warm or cold. Yes, fuel pressure is there (17.5), CKP was replaced 15 months ago, IAT and MAP are new, grounds and batt connections are clean and tight, batteries are well charged, alt is putting out 13.58 volts at the batt. See this thread for history: http://forum.mopar1973man.com/showthread.php/1584-Problems-Stalling-when-shifting-to-drive-and-hard-starting-when-hot.-Ideas Thanks Jim

OK. Mike you were correct, after I started using fuel without cleaner the problem with the truck dieing when shifted into drive returned. The hunting, surging, and hard starting have not returned. I don't know if this symptom is related or not. When the truck dies, I put it into neutral and restart it, as soon as it catches I shift it into drive before the rpm has stabilized and it will usually stay running. However, this is when the fuel pressure fluctuation (bouncing between 5 and 10/10 lbs on the gauge) starts to happen. I've found that if I shift it back into neutral the fluctuation of the fuel pressure stops and the pressure stabilizes at 17.5 lbs. Then when i shift it back into drive it dies again. However, if I give it some throttle and the engine rpm comes up to 1000 or so the pressure goes to 17.5 and the fluctuation stops. The only sensor I haven't replaced is the cam sensor, anyone think that could be the issue?. Anyone know what the function of the cam sensor on a 98.5 is? The CKP sensor was replaced not that long ago 12/08. Thanks Jim

I think I would stretch several layers of pantyhose over the end of the intake horn and clamp it with a hose clamp to keep dirt out.

Without the turbo pressure there will be no power. As far as hurting it, as long as you don't suck anything into the intake (dust, dirt, sand) it shouldn't hurt it. Take it easy and run it as little as possible, it will suck air into the engine where the boots were and none of that is filtered.

I second LIVEOAK's assessment, Another option to look at is a Raptor pump less expensive than a FASS or AirDog and without filters & air/water seterator. But it is a good pump.

4" PVC pipe cap, rubber sewer connector, hose clamps. drill and tap the cap for an air hose fitting. There ya go man.

Good luck with clamping off that METAL return line.Just replace the return valve in the VP44 with a new one and you will have the answer.Forget about the OEM lift pumps everyone knows they are not worth the time to mess around with anyway.Put on a better lift pump and be done with it.

Means they are rated to produce 75 hp additional to the engine, so if the engine was rated at 215 hp with these injectors it is rated at 290. Theoretically - actual hp gain depends on a number of other factors as well.

Are the injectors brand new ones, used ones from someone else, or did you/someone put new nozzles on the old bodies? If not brand new have they been pop tested?