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Mopar1973Man

UPDATE! - August 14, 2007 - BTU values of fuels and chemical

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Mopar1973Man    3,658
Mopar1973Man

UPDATE! - August 14, 2007 - BTU values of fuels and chemicals. http://mopar1973man.servehttp.com/pics/btu's%20values.jpg So is it possible that any kind of cetane booster / injection cleaner containing these chemical can IMPROVE you performance? It's not possible. They have considerable reduction in BTU value and extremely low flash points like gasoline. Please take the time time and look up you favorite additive in my MSDS listing. Also for those of you that are switch to BIO Diesel / Ethanol fuels (Gasser). Take notice that both fuel product less power compared to the Dino version. So it will reduce your fuel mileage some... The higher the BTU value the higher HP/TQ number and MPG numbers you'll net from your vehicle. So this also prove that cetane booster with increase the cetane level for sure but it will decrease the BTU's and HP/TQ... This explains why in the winter time when they increase the cetane to 45 or better the MPG decreases. It because the BTU's where lost with the cetane booster added to the fuel. So this proves without a doubt a 40 cetane proves more power than 45 cetane fuel. Quick Story... While I was at the Dyno when I got my results above. A friend of mine ran a very popular brand cetane booster in main tank mix with the 2 cycle oil at 128:1. When he ran the dyno on the 2 cycle and cetane booster he lost about 15 HP/30 TQ from it. So he switch over to his aux. tank and ran just the 2 cycle oil. The results was he gain back plus about 5 HP. So increasing the cetane level of your fuel doesn't mean you gain power it actually will decrease it!

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Mopar1973Man    3,658
Mopar1973Man

UPDATE! - August 22, 2007 - Relationship between HFRR, Cetane, BTU's, and MPG's

Just something to think about...

I was thinking about the 3 common fuel additives. 2 of them are paint thinners right??? Well its like saying you got a 1 gallon can of paint and dumping a small ratio of mineral spirits and/or xylene to it. Now even with paint (oil based) the paint thinners thin it out rapidly for a small ratio. Well that what its doing for you fuel.

The paint is very similar in way to you diesel fuel. It's much thicker (cSt's) compared to the additive. Now after you add the additive it thins out the fuel fuel more (reducing the cSt's or increasing the HFRR value). At the same time its reducing the BTU's of the fuel.

So fuel additives are working against you by creating more wear on internal parts (LP/IP pumps and injectors) and reducing the BTU's of the fuel.

Everyone KNOWS that every winter that you MPG's will fall. This because the cetane of the fuel is raised to keep the pour point down and keep it easy starting for cold starting. When you raise the cetane level of the fuel to 45-47 (or higher) cetane your reducing the fuel BTU's so the fuel does less work and so the MPG's fall. This also mean you buy more fuel... :o

So if you looking to increase you MPG you NEED a lower cetane fuel like 40-43 cetane. The lower the cetane the better for MPG's. As over in my BTU's Values you notice that 3 chemicals have extremely low BTU's values compared to diesel. These additives will quickly reduce the BTU's value of the diesel fuel. But when you look back at 2 cycle oil its got nearly the same value as #1 diesel. So there is very little loss if any. But you've increase the lubricity of the fuel greatly compared to a fuel additive.

Like right now Chevron's Diesel fuel are relatively high for cetane. (43-47 Cetane)

http://www.cpchem.com/enu/tds_unsecured ... ummary.pdf

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Mopar, as you know from the other site, you your starting to swing me over to the 2cycle side. The things i still have trouble with is that 1) how can a company say there product lubes when it does not, and also claim fuel mileage gains. Im not saying that they are not lying but wouldnt that be false advertising and isnt that against the law.( not that that stops people) I can certainly understand how they clean the system with all those solvents they contain. 2 I do know a few techs, diesel and otherwise . Some have said the 2cycle would clog valves and injectors. ( i know you addressed that in a PM to me . I would love to see a test done with three identical trucks starting with the same mileage. One runs on just fuel, one on your 2cycle mix, and one on a popular Additive. Take the fuel systems apart at say 50k and look at the differences.

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Mopar1973Man    3,658
Mopar1973Man

As for the additive lubricity... I got a email from PS saying that they did a test with some poorly treated fuel (above 520 HFRR) and PS was able to bring it back close to the 520 HFRR. That's where they make there claim. But still its never reduced below the 520 HFRR mark. Then for dirty injectors it might clean it up enough to make a improvement. As for myself I've ran PS for 50K miles with no improvement at all in MPG or HP/TQ. Also I contribute the fact of PS having solvents in the product to my failure of my first LP pump and VP44 at 50K miles. I'm currently at 109K miles and no problem with fuel pressure, IP/LP pumps at all.

As for testing 2 cycle oil. Duluth Diesel is currently running AMSOil interceptor 2 cycle oil (Synthetic). I'm running Supertech Outboard 2 cycle oil (Dino version). I started running in back at 85K miles. If there was a problem with running 2 cycle oil I would of started to lose MPG and HP/TQ numbers as the deposits start to grow on the crown of the pistons and the tips of the injectors. But I'm still holding great MPG (19-20) and HP/TQ (381/826) numbers as of currently...

At least for Cummins we are allowed up to 5% of WEO (Waste Engine Oil) to be dumped back into the fuel. So that is 35 Gallons for our fuel tanks at 5% that is a whooping 1.75 Gallons of WEO you can dump into the fuel. But I don't approve of the WEO because of the amount of metals and soot you'll be pumping back through the fuel system... Not good. So Dorkweed on CumminForum.Com figure out the 2 cycle oil is ashless. And its better that 30W engine oil which has ASH and WILL create deposits on the injectors. Not to mention engine oil wasn't truely meant to be burned. But 2 cycle oil was meant to be burned and used a a lubricant! Regardless of the type of fuel what I was worried about was flash point / auto ignition temps of mixed 2 cycle oil / diesel still going to burn hot enough... YES! My pyro still will get over the 1,200*F mark without a problem. Since 2 cycle oil has a flash point of 200-210*F it burns completely off at a idle in my truck idle at about 250-350*F on the pyro.

As for using WEO Cummins has been doing it for a long time now...

https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qso ... inel.print

And here is my search on Centinel...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... tnG=Search

As as for Cummins using oil in the fuel... It's prefectly OK!!!

REMEMBER!!! if there is any kind of build on the injectors my MPG will show it by falling... :shock:

I got another one for you to think about... Ok next time you pull fuel filter pull the filter out and keep it. Now take a small bucket and try washing some of the material of it in diesel fuel. Now that you got a sample of dirt... Now add you favorite injector cleaner to the diesel fuel. (In Correct ratio closely as possible). Mix well and let it sit... Continue to mix and sit... for a few days... And then tell me if the debis is gone or not... Mostly like not. If a product was strong enough to clean injectors that are dirty fuel plugged it would most likely clean the fuel filter too... But it don't... That why most people are going to better filter systems to protect the injectors. Now if its deposit plugged injectors that normally cause by running low pyro temps and driving shorts distance. The harden deposit is most likely not going to dissolve in and kind of cleaner. Just looking at some of the nasty spark plugs (gasoline engines - deposits are just about the same) I've seen in my day there isn't a chemical strong enough to clean it.

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I just filled up and put my first quart of 2cycle in. I know you have a cummins and you state alot of facts for them. I dont have one. i assume the systems are similar enough though.

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Mopar1973Man    3,658
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I just filled up and put my first quart of 2cycle in. I know you have a cummins and you state alot of facts for them. I dont have one. i assume the systems are similar enough though.

Well so far I'm currently testing on a Chevy 6.5L diesel fire truck. So far its stopped throwing the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light, idle more smoothly, reduced the amount of bucking, increase the power (seat -o- pants dyno). Without 2 cycle oil being adding... The SERVICE ENGINE SOON light comes on then power is reduced by half (limp mode), hard starting, starts bucking when hot or under heavy load up hill, stalls for no reseason. Our fire dept was going to condemn E11 because its not safe to use and not reliable. Now since the 2 cycle oil we gain back the truck it relaible again, and managed to get another 10K miles on it.

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curious as what your opinion is as to why the 2cycle affected the "service engine soon " light coming on

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Mopar1973Man    3,658
Mopar1973Man

When the truck doesn't have the the 2 cycle oil its like it mis-fires. Like either a stuck injector and/or a injector pump problem. When it does mis-fires its fairly violent. It's like the key was shut off and back on for about 1 or 2 cylinders. :o So my explaination on it is that the 2 cycle oil is keeping the injection pump and injectors lube enough from sticking. That truck is also 1994 (I think) and was designed for LSD most of the problems got worse as the start of ULSD come to be. There was NOT a single local additive that could fix this problem (PowerService or Marvel Mystery Oil). But 2 cycle oil is working just fine... :mrgreen:

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As soon as I burn off this tank that is in the truck, I am going to ditch my fuel additive and go with 2 cycle in my 6.0. I hope to have some results to give back to you guys!

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Mopar, as you know from the other site, you your starting to swing me over to the 2cycle side. The things i still have trouble with is that 1) how can a company say there product lubes when it does not, and also claim fuel mileage gains. Im not saying that they are not lying but wouldnt that be false advertising and isnt that against the law.( not that that stops people) I can certainly understand how they clean the system with all those solvents they contain. 2 I do know a few techs, diesel and otherwise . Some have said the 2cycle would clog valves and injectors. ( i know you addressed that in a PM to me . I would love to see a test done with three identical trucks starting with the same mileage. One runs on just fuel, one on your 2cycle mix, and one on a popular Additive. Take the fuel systems apart at say 50k and look at the differences.

Just filled up with my third tank W/2-cycle oil and still no problems to report as of yet.

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Does anyone have a link for a BTU chart that lists 2 stroke oil. I cant open the link at the begining of this thread it just shows a red x. I saw a thread elsewhere that stated 2 stroke oil averages 138,000 BTUs. Anyone else? Thanks snoboy

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Does anyone have a link for a BTU chart that lists 2 stroke oil. I cant open the link at the begining of this thread it just shows a red x. I saw a thread elsewhere that stated 2 stroke oil averages 138,000 BTUs. Anyone else? Thanks snoboy

Snoboy, Follow this link.. http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/2-cycle-oil/btu/btu.htm Or goto Mike's webpage (link at the bottom of the main page of the forum. Goto the webpage/2002 cummins/tips and tricks/2 cycle oil/BTU's I hope this helps!!! M's Maiden

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