Lower engine noise with bio diesel?

[5akman]

I have been running either 2 stroke or OptiLube in my rig. I have a 50 mile round trip work commute at highway speeds (65mph) and I almost always have some "diesel rattle", sometimes more noticeable than not. Yesterday I forgot to get some additive out of the garage so when I filled up, I had nothing to add to the tank so I pumped 30 gals of B20. I noticed within about 25 minutes, a huge decrease in engine noise. And again this morning on the way to work, it was so much quieter. I can't believe bio does a better job at lubrication/noise reduction than 2 stroke does. Has anyone else noticed this? Is long term bio use aok? Any advantage to bio and something like Optilube combined? I get 17mpg with either additive while driving 65+mph. I do have the Quad Adr in the cab but have not finished wiring it up yet and I purchased Mike's econo tune a few months ago also. I'm hoping that with the tune, I can break 20mpg. Will the bio help or hinder the fuel mileage? 

[Max Tune]

Bio is very slippery. Only bad thing is in cold weather,  you have to add extra anti-gel to it. Not a big issue. There is a chart here somewhere that Mike posted awhile ago and bio fuel was way up on the anti-wear ability. 

 

 

 

Here it is....

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Max Tune

[Mopar1973Man]

9 minutes ago, Max Tune said:

Only bad thing is in cold weather,  you have to add extra anti-gel to it. Not a big issue. There is a chart here somewhere that Mike posted awhile ago and bio fuel was way up on the anti-wear ability. 

 

Be aware standard petroleum anti-gel will not work for bio-diesel. You have to find a product designed for use for bio-diesel. This is a big problem for guys like in Minnesota that have only bio-diesel and most standard products will not deal with bio-diesel being it's made from animal fats or plant matter. Not the same problem that petroleum is paraffin wax and bio-diesel could be like bacon grease, animal fats, etc that petroleum diesel anti-gels will not handle so be aware of that.  

[Max Tune]

Last year using power service I was gelled bad. This year I used hot shot secrets and never had a hiccup....

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

How about 461k miles (21 years) and never used any antigel products? I don't even have a bottle even in the shop. Seen winter temperatures as low as -40°F and never had any issues.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[Max Tune]

Fuel around here gells bad. I've tried alot of different stations and they all gell.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ah... I'm smart enough to catch fuel delivery trucks and talk to the driver. Like I found out that Maverik Fuels in McCall the delivery driver doubles the dose of PPD (Pour Point Depressant). Typically when he delivers down in Boise ID they only add half of the PPD. I'm always doing my research and talking to people to get facts. Hence why I've never had to use Anti Gel Products.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[Max Tune]

18 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Ah... I'm smart enough to catch fuel delivery trucks and talk to the driver. Like I found out that Maverik Fuels in McCall the delivery driver doubles the dose of PPD (Pour Point Depressant). Typically when he delivers down in Boise ID they only add half of the PPD. I'm always doing my research and talking to people to get facts. Hence why I've never had to use Anti Gel Products.

Good luck with that around here. Only answer you get here is "I don't know".

Fuel delivery drivers here have zero interest in talking to anyone. People that work at the stations are lucky to find their way back and forth from home to work, let alone know anything about what they're selling.

[Mopar1973Man]

Gotta keep trying you'll find the info. Another trick I started visiting fuel stations and identified as a volunteer firefighter and asked politely for information about fuels and products then asked for the MSDS sheets of the products so I could do research for our fire dept and help with training. Yup, I got everything I wanted. It's a requirement by law that all hazardous materials sold in a business must have these documents. Some vendors might have them on their website if you dig deep enough. Showing summer fuels and winter fuels. Like Cennex has PPD sold in 55-gallon drums which when I looked it up was Xylene yup paint thinner. So if you reading MSDS sheets you can check the volume of PPD or if listed as Xylene which is very common out here.

 

Yup, I've done my homework.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[Max Tune]

Easier to just add anti-gel....

[Mopar1973Man]

9 hours ago, Max Tune said:

Easier to just add anti-gel....

Why? More anti-gel you add the lower the BTUs per gallon. All anti-gel has cetane booster. More you add the less power the fuel will have. Also it would be a waste of money if you have good supply fuels that are treated properly. Now you also have to remember being xylene which is a PPD also it raising HFRR scores and increasing wear. This is another battle where people want to mix 2 cycle oil and anti-gel products. Which you shouldn't do because they negate each other. 

 

2 cycle oil is a cetane reducer and anti-gel is cetane booster. Anti-gel uses solvent to prevent gel fuel but also breaks down lubricity of the fuel and 2 cycle oil.

 

Hence why I rather have good fuel source than playing with several products to fix bad pour point which now creates bad lubricity of fuel which now you need to fix to prevent VP44 wear and injector wear.

 

Not that easy...

[5akman]

would something like one of the OptiLube products help with the anti gel (not sure if they do anything for this issue) or do they raise the btu's to help negate the lower power in the bio fuel?

[Max Tune]

Anti Gel works for me. Up to 20% bio in fuel around here. No way around it, anti gel is a must.

[Mopar1973Man]

Cetane booster all REDUCE btus of the fuel.

 

 

Light green is winter fuel and dark green is summer fuel. So adding more anti gel and/or cetane booster is only going to make things worse.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[Max Tune]

Truck runs fine. Can't notice any difference.  I don't drive it much in the winter and I don't tow or haul anything so not concerned about a bit of loss. 

 

I just care that fuel flows when it needs to. Anti gel does that for me here.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Max Tune

[5akman]

37 minutes ago, Max Tune said:

Truck runs fine. Can't notice any difference.  I don't drive it much in the winter and I don't tow or haul anything so not concerned about a bit of loss. 

 

I just care that fuel flows when it needs to. Anti gel does that for me here.

 What brand Anti Gel do you use with the 20% bio?

[Max Tune]

On 3/10/2023 at 9:42 PM, Max Tune said:

Last year using power service I was gelled bad. This year I used hot shot secrets and never had a hiccup....

 

 

 

[5akman]

36 minutes ago, Max Tune said:

 

Missed that info in the prior post, thanks

[5akman]

I checked the mileage on this first tank of bio and it was 16.4 mpg which is right at 1.0 mpg less than straight diesel or with 2 stroke added. I've done this 50 mile round trip highway commute for 29 yrs now and feel like the drive is as consistent as it can be so 16 it is!  I have Mike's Economy tune to get loaded on my Quad as soon as I can find time to get my extended harness Quad unit completely installed. 

[Mopar1973Man]

21 minutes ago, 5akman said:

I checked the mileage on this first tank of bio and it was 16.4 mpg which is right at 1.0 mpg less than straight diesel or with 2 stroke added.

 

This is because Biodiesel is lower in BTU/Gallon vs Petroleum diesel which is much higher. High the Bio amount the lower the BTU's being its higher cetane fuel and there just isn't the BTU's in the fuel. 

 

22 minutes ago, 5akman said:

I have Mike's Economy tune to get loaded on my Quad as soon as I can find time to get my extended harness Quad unit completely installed. 

 

On my last trip, the previous tune I netted my Boise trip and home 21.6 MPG. I don't know why but I backed the cruise timing down on that one and now brought it back up. Now I'm seeing much better EGT's that are basement low, engine load (amount of fuel) is lower to maintain cruising speeds on flat ground, timing isn't rattling the engine hard at all. I've found some secrets and have been running with them and really making good gains. 

 

CLUE: You can crank up some serious timing only if your boost is  10 PSI or less. Also, have to make sure cruise timing drops out at the right time because if you are holding that high timing and start building boost you can take a risk of blowing the head gasket. 

 

Also have to be careful about the types of fuel you are going to use being the cetane level in Biodiesel is high. Where petroleum diesel is typically lower with more BTUs so timing you have to look at fuel types and how much cetane and what your IAT temps are like. HINT: Colder air needs more timing to allow fuels to ignite at the proper time.