ISX: first question!

[rancherman]

Ok, you probably are aware of my project: putting a '97 cummins+6spd(2002) into my 'ultimate ranch vechicle'Which is my '94 2500. (the one I snagged in Wyoming)Very interested in using you 'ultimate' P7100 mods, but I'm curious on it's total driveability. I'm not the only one to use this truck when completed.. Wife will jockey it too! I just got her used to NOT USING THE ACCCELERATOR when starting from a dead stop.. (actually relying on the built-in torque of the stock cummins) Our experience is based on our '00 cummins with 6 speed.what does your recommendations on the P7100 do for 'out of the hole'? Will it react similar to the stock vp44, or will a little right-foot-work be needed to 'start-rolling'?I'll probably get the truck together 'stock'.... and make sure everything is working properly, before doing any mods.

[ISX]

Man, there are a lot of posts I can write, erase, and rewrite and this is one of them. Tell me your goals for this thing, what you want out of it, and I'll advise.. My truck isn't exactly for the unbeknowist cummins owner to be driving around. As far as driving a VP44 and P7100, the VP44 is smoother because the fly by wire setup seems to allow it to give you the entire range of the throttle throughout the pedal. Meaning you have to push your foot down a lot farther to get more power out of the VP44 because it is using the whole range of motion of it. The P7100 being mechanical, only uses like 1/2" at a time. The governor moves that half inch upwards on the pedal as RPM increases or rather, the "hard" spot. Meaning at 3000RPM, the hard spot is now the actual hard spot of the floor lol. Go out and blip the starter (to engage the shutoff solenoid) and then press on the pedal and you will notice it only goes 1/2" before it gets hard. You can press hard and it will keep going but from that initial hard spot on, it is just pushing a spring. That 1/2" is actually all it takes to go from 0-100% throttle.. The governor creates a sense that the throttle is the range of the whole pedal, but it isn't and if you drive based on that hard spot by never going past it, you will notice it makes no difference when you actually do go past it. Going past it actually defuels it slightly at lower RPM's because of the geometry of the arm inside the pump. I've noticed this while stepping on it at slower speeds. At high RPM there is no difference.In other words, if she moves her foot 1/2" at a time, it might be a little tough. But I think she will adapt just fine. I am making this a lot worse than it sounds only because I can feel the slightest difference between all this crap

[rancherman]

This application will be probably 75% pulling trailers, 25% unhooked. If I can get up to 20 mpg empty, maybe it'll see even more use as the family truckster!The 'kid' in me wouldn't mind a little extra 'under the hood' either. Back in my 'youth'.. I couldn't afford the 'new and shiney'.. I had to build it. It's kinda a testament to my roots: "use your head, hands, and back" to get whatcha need. (I've never owned a new vehicle) I remember when the NEW 1994 Dodge came out! I drooled all over them, (thinking in about 10 years, I'll snag one out of the junkyard and fix it up) well, It didn't take quite that long, and it wasn't wrecked! Also, when I build something, I already have a pretty good knowledge base on how to fix it down the road! I see a lot of farmers sitting in the feild 'waiting for a tech' to show up and sort out their 'problems' on their new shiney paint... While my mechanical 'rust buckets' across the road are finishing up the day's work! I Just don't want a temperamental 'bronco' that is impossible for use as a 'driver'. I have a pretty good handle on what just about any of my machines are doing at most times.. An "Operator" per se. I have a good feel on what it takes to 'spoon feed' an engine.. and am sure I'd be quick to learn the new 'curve' on this setup.Wife is pretty quick to learn too, I'd think if I tell her to just roll into the throttle, and shift at a certain rpm, she'll be close enough. 99% of the 'work use' will be me behind the wheel.I guess I'm looking at it this way: nothing is permanent! (no, divorce isn't on the horizon!!) I can always go back to stock if needed LOL although if this thing REALLY is fun to drive..

[ISX]

I'm not sure why I thought you had never driven one but I think you are driving the one you have right now. 12V's actually drive exactly the same no matter the power level. I noticed 24V's seem to manipulate the pedal input as you change the chip setting, or at least it seemed like it did. 12V's are always exactly the same, the only difference is the *potential* is there so if you want more power, press harder.. Over the last year I have never even floored it on mine, I just feather it to get the power I need to pass people or whatever the case may be. There is this steep hill in rolla, MO that is probably a mile long and it switches to 3 lanes (2 passing going up, 1 lane for opposite traffic) so that everyone can pass the truckers that slow way down trying to get up it. Anyhow, it shows perfectly how a 12V set up like mine works. I had the trailer and was doing my usual 70mph routine. Well there was a line of truckers and if you don't get past them on this 3 lane deal then your stuck behind them for a long time up all the other crappy hills. So I start passing them and there is always 1 or 2 that you are unsure about being able to pass since the hill is almost over, so you just push on the pedal.. The more you press the more it goes. Seems simple and the same as every vehicle on the planet. But on a 24V you have to mess with the chip to adjust power and everything, on a 12V you have absolute control, which is what I love. If the time calls for more power, it's there. Its easily controllable so I never understood why guys have to put plates and stuff on them to control them, I mean it's your right foot's fault.. The biggest issue that will make or break everything is EGT's. I have a 5" exhaust with a semi truck see through muffler. I don't think anything over a 4" is necessary, 3" is pushing it, though I know Mike seems to be fine with it, he still hits 1400 if he wants though, I don't, but I used to. I am not sure if the new shaft helped a lot in the turbo or what but it spools a lot better now and setting the valves as tight as you are comfortable is ideal as well (6 intake 15 exhaust). Now another thing I did and I did mention this in that writeup was that I ripped the fan and shroud off and that also seemed to help my EGT's out. Like I said I used to be one of the guys who could peg out the EGT gauge, now I can't, and I have as much if not more fueling going to it as I did back in the 1400F days. As far as timing goes...I have been all over the map. I think 13-15 is best. It kinda depends on where you live, how much you tow, axle ratio, etc. If you have 4.10s and live in texas then I would put it at 16, if you live in alaska and have 3.54s I would put it at 11 or 12.

[rancherman]

sounds exactly like what I'd like!Im assuming you went with an electric fan??? I know some of my posts get a little 'start in the middle of a thought' type posts, LOL, In essence, been running our '00 cummins for about 9 years now. Bone stock. This truck is owned with my FIL, and my ranch business has grown to NEED more than the one 'puller'. You know the feeling you get when you can keep up or surpass the $50k+ 'new shiney paint' with a little research and elbow grease? It makes me smile! I got nothing against the new stuff....SOMEONE HAS TO BUY IT FIRST!! I'll be there after it's depreciated!!You know the early days of hot rodding? bigger cam, bigger carb, headers...etc etc.. and the result??? Ran great from 3000 rpm and up! Not so much for in town type conditions.. That is what I didn't want to have happen with this. (no bottom end torque) Thats why I asked my original question, I have zero experience behind the wheel of a hot diesel. Just wanted to know what to expect. I had a suspicion that your mods would basically only effect how and when fuel is added (getting 'into' the governor) (which would be akin to a four barrel carb, and only using the primary side of the carb... the secondaries are there when you need it) I know exactly what you are talking about on your explanation of the 'tight' feeling on the governor. That'll be easy to learn on this app.This '97 is supposed to have just over 200,000 miles, and since it'll be pulled for the transplant, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to at least roll new bearings in it? The kid I got it from said he drove it pretty much as what the stock setting would allow it. Are the rod bolts good for a second life? or is it wise to replace each time?Would you guys like me to have a build thread on here? I'd kinda like to show off my skills, (or lack of) and maybe someone could chime in when you see me screwing up! I know this is basic stuff I am doing, done a million times already.. I wouldn't want to use up my welcome!Thanks ISX

[ISX]

I actually don't run any fan at all. It never gets hot and I work on it so much that I decided against having that fan in my way all the time. If you worked on mine you would never want to work on yours again. I have cleared away so much crap that you can do anything on it in 5 minutes. I want to really get a good design going on where to run everything and hard line it all. I am really good at bending pipe of all sizes especially little stainless steel hydraulic lines and I want to make the whole thing look incredible. I wouldn't run without a fan though since you do pull... If you go slow with a trailer it quickly heats up lol. As long as you don't cut anything (like the fuel plate) you can make it all go back to stock.. I am not sure on the bearing thing. I have never had a reason to replace mine and since I'm not a mechanic I never really mess with them so someone else can chime in on that. A build thread would be great. It's not like we have many 12V threads going in here very often so the more the better.

[rancherman]

I see you run a 13 inch clutch. Did you redrill your 4500 flywheel, or go with a 5600 flywheel/starter spacer combo?I see a lot of aftermarket clutches come with flywheels as a complete kit.

[Mopar1973Man]

Or... You can get a Southbend 13 inch flywheel. http://www.southbendclutch.com/

[ISX]

Yeah I got the 13" Flywheel from south bend.

[rancherman]

Got a 'lead' on a supposedly good used 5600, and before I cannonball down to look at it, I want to make sure it's the larger 1-3/8ths input shaft.The guy I called wasn't sure, but thought it's out of a 2001, (Should be the larger if original)... didn't the smaller shafts have a different spline count? One has 10 and the other 12?

[ISX]

This is what I get.NV5600 6 Speed Specifications: Case:......Cast Iron Bellhousing:......Aluminum Alloy Torque Rating:......550 lb.-ft. Gross Vehicle Weight:......16,000 lbs. Gross Combined Weight:......26,000 lbs. Transmission Weight:......360 lbs. First Gear Ratio:......5.63-1 Second Gear Ratio:......3.38-1 Third Gear Ratio:......2.04-1 Fourth Gear Ratio:......1.39-1 Fifth Gear Ratio:......1.00-1 Sixth Gear Ratio: .073-1......(Overdrive) Reverse Gear Ratio:......5.63-1 Oil Capacity:......9.5 pints Oil Capacity with optional filter:..10 pints Recommended Lubricant:.....Chrysler 4874464 Input Shaft:..10 Spline, either 1.25" or 1.375"

[rancherman]

dang..I thought I'd make it easy for the seller to just count the splines... instead of 'eyeballing' a shaft.Not much difference in 1.25 and 1.375I 'googled' nv5600 swaps. Found maybe 3 posts with the 12 spline being small, and 10 spline being the large.And at least one stating just the opposite!NOW yours says the same! (thanks for posting!)Can't trust anything on this 'net.:banghead: Give my tran rebuilder a call in the morning!

[rancherman]

Finding a 'good' 5600, is proving to be a little tuff! all the hot leads I find either:email me back with "yes, still have trans'' or,Sorry, ya just missed it! too bad, so sad....But when I ask about miles, or at least send a pic to confirm the actual existance of transmission.... POOF. zip zero nada.Sure, tons of 'fresh rebuilt' for ~3500 plus core..... So, just for giggles, I searched 'swapping G56 behind a 12v'.It's been done, and actually not to intense! uses same engine adapterNeeds 13 inch clutch (and subsequent starter spacer if original was for nv4500)Needs short pushrod for the throwout bearing.Does not have speedo provisions, so if going into a pre '97, need to tap speed info from rear axle speed sensor. (Dakota Digital is supposed to have the interface box)Easy to change from 2wd over to 4wd. (rear housing seal is different on each). main shaft splines/length is same regardless. In either case, any Dodge TC is supposed to bolt up. I read the pros and cons to each trans, I am wondering now if going with a trans that is still actually made today is the way to roll? parts are going to be tougher to find on all the NV's.I was leary of the aluminum case for sure, and several sites state the lack of bearing support inside the case as a leading cause of breakage.I think this trans is still new enough, that copyright has the aftermarket guys on a short chain for now. That'd probably change over time.I found one right in my back yard.. from a 2007 wrecked truck.Whats the opinion here? TOMORROW, (Thanks to the snow today) I'll have enough time to retrieve my '97!!!!! PROJECT 'ranch truck' will offically begin!