2002 5.9 No Start

[Rob]

Last year I had the ECM repaired because it would not come off of idle. This year it would start cold but would not start after it was warmed up? I sent the ECM back for repair but it was sent back saying it was fine but the PCM would be the problem? I sent in the PCM for repair and after it was returned and installed now the truck will not start at all? There are no codes showing? Any ideas?

[olred92]

Would the ECM and PCM need to be synced together?

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Would the ECM and PCM need to be synced together?

[Rob]

When I sent the ECM and PCM for repair I sent them the truck ser# so that they could be programed properly? If that's what you meant? Thanks

[diesel4life]

Have you cracked your injectors to see if your getting fuel to them? Assuming you sent your ecm into a reputable shop, fuel would be my next move Also, how are you checking for codes? I would try to locate a quality scanner, even if it costs you a few bucks to have somebody hook one up to your rig. If your ecm is bad, there should be a "no communication" message. If it can link, you will probably get more info than by doing the key trick

[Rob]

No I have not checked for feul at the injectors yet, but I will before moving forward. I checked for fuel being pumped to the filter. Truck ran fine after an initial cold start before this whole mess? I used the same scanner that diagnosed the bad ECM a year ago. I was told it may be the computer on top of the feul pump? apparently if it goes bad you won't get any codes come up? Thanks

[Jesnic]

Do you have any electronics on truck? Are the gauges working, does the WTS come on, does the gen light come on, aftermarket fuel pump? You have done the key trick and no codes? Does the scanner and OBDII communicate? More info is needed. Fill out your sig with any mods done. Stock injectors? Oil full? Batteries charged to full?

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Who did the ecu and pcm work?

[Rob]

OK, The truck is totally stock with no extra electronics. When the key is on all dash instruments seem OK, and yes WTS comes on properly. The scanner tool says communicating with ECM and reads no fault codes. The key switch will not work for trying to do code reads, it has in the past? I cracked an injector and had no feul while cranking? The ECM and PCM were sent to "Auto Module Source" and they said the ECM was fine but repaired the PCM?(this doesn't seem right).There is feul being pumped up to the filter, the truck had a factory recall when new and a new lift pump installed in the tank. Is there a way to be certain if the pump is the problem? Thanks.2002 ,5.9, 4x4, 5 speed manual( completely stock)

[gassernomore]

Check the fuel pump fuse in the pcm. Switch it with the trailer fuse, they are both 40 amps. Then see if you have fuel. Do you hear your pump turn on when you bump your starter?

[diesel4life]

If youve got fuel to the injection pump but not past it it sounds like either your vp or ecm. If they verified the ecm is fine, it kinda narrows it down. I dont know how to check it other than maybe call around to some of the certified bosh shops that rebuild the vp's and see if they will bench test yours

[Jesnic]

Auto Module Source is a good company. They have done a few ecms and pcms and a few other computer issues for me and I have never had a problem with them. As a matter of fact, I just recieved a pcm and ecm for my truck and they work great. The ecm controls the vp44. There is a fuel relay in the pdc. Make sure it works or switch it with the ac relay. They are the same. When you turn the key on three times and get no code info, that is a problem. It reads the PCM first, then the ECM. Bluechip diesel has a test you can run on the vp44 to make sure it is working. If you have fuel from the pump to the filter, then you have fuel at the vp44. Crack injector lines 1,3 and 5. Bump the key to the start position and allow the supply pump to run for 25 seconds, this should vent the air from the fuel supply system. Then crank the engine over until you start to get fuel out of the loosened injection (lines 1, 3 and 5), tighten each line as it begins to deliver fuel. The engine should start, but will run rough until the air is purged from the system.

NOTE: Do Not crank the engine for more than 10

seconds before letting the starter cool down.

Process taken from Oregondiesel website

The ecm and pcm have to be for a manual trans for your truck. The computers for autos will not work.

As for the computer on top of the vp44, no one rebuilds just the computer that I am aware of. They need the entire vp44 to rebuild. I do have a spare vp44.

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Taken from Bluechipdiesel.com

[h=2]IMPORTANT DIAGNOSTIC FACT:

TO MAKE THE ENGINE START AND IDLE ONLY, YOU DON’T NEED ANY SENSORS OR COMPUTERS OR ELECTRIC LIFT PUMP. YOU ONLY NEED 12 VOLT POWER, GROUND, AND FUEL TO THE VP44.[/h][h=2]NO START – TEST #1[/h][h=3]FUEL SUPPLY TEST[/h]If the fuel gauge reads 1/8 – 1/4 of a tank, put a few gallons in the tank and bleed the fuel system. I say this because of the famous Dodge fuel tank sender problem. Your gauge may have just failed and be out of calibration for the first time and the tank is actually empty. In this situation air AND fuel is what you are trying to start the engine with! Pressure indicators don’t know the difference between air and fuel pressure, so they make you falsely think all is OK. You will be very glad you did this if your truck runs again and you don’t need an Injection Pump!

If the engine was running BEFORE you CHANGED THE FUEL FILTER or OPENED A FUEL LINE, and it HASN’T STARTED SINCE, or, it started and stalled after doing this, and it WON’T BLEED or restart, and you can hear the Lift Pump running, but won’t fill the filter canister, you most likely have a bad electric Lift Pump. That’s a long complicated sentence, so reread it again slowly for clarification! Please remember when you are doing this diagnosis that the ECM turns on the electrical power to the Lift Pump only for 4 seconds when the key is in the “on” or “run” position. When the ECM sees the “start” signal from the ignition switch it runs the lift pump for 25 seconds, and when it sees idle RPM it runs continuously. If the lift pump doesn’t come on, or doesn’t pump fuel into the filter canister when you click the key to the “start” and release it to the “run” position, you can bleed the system to get fuel to the VP44 and get the engine to run again by pressurizing the fuel tank with air pressure, or diagnosing and replacing the electric Lift Pump. The reason this strange scenario happens, is because there is a mechanical lift pump built into the VP44 which works fine UNTIL air gets into the system. This explains why VP44 fueled engines don’t die on the side of the road when the electric one fails.

[h=2]NO START – TEST #2[/h][h=3]FUEL SYSTEM ELECTRICAL TEST[/h]Next test the electrical wiring and verify that there is battery voltage getting to the VP44 with the key in the “run” AND ”start” positions. Remove the big plug on the back of the injection pump by wiggling the plug with your right hand pulling toward the firewall and the left hand pulling the indented locking tab toward the fender. When you have the plug in your hand, hold it so it looks like a smiley face, with six pins below the smile and three pins above. Using a test light or voltmeter with its ground connection on the engine, verify battery voltage on the bottom right pin (pin #7, which is a red wire with a light green tracer on a Dodge), during both “run” and “start” key functions. Then verify the ground on the bottom left pin (pin#6, which is a black wire with a tan tracer on a Dodge), by doing the voltage test again at pin 7 with the ground connector of your test instrument on pin 6 in the plug. If you see no voltage then, it means there is no ground! Use only pin positions, not wire color, when diagnosing a Ford or Freightliner. If you don’t have power at the plug, check the fuse in the PDC (Power Distribution Center, aka fuse box under the hood) for the fuel system, and if that is good, check fuse #9 in the fuse box on the left side of the dash. If they are both good, then try swapping the fuel system relay in the PDC with the one for the horn. Hopefully you find your problem this easily, but if not, get out the schematic for this circuit. If you don’t have one, go to ALLDATAdiy.com . If you have battery voltage on pin #7 in both key positions, and a known good ground on pin 6, cut the black tape off the VP44 plug harness to access the wires going into the plug and reinstall plug. On a Dodge find the light blue wire with a red tracer (pin #5 on other trucks) and verify that there is NOT battery voltage there during either the “run” or the “start” functions of the ignition switch, WITH THE PLUG PLUGGED IN. The ONLY time there should be battery voltage on pin 5, is for about three seconds after turning the key to the “off” position. If there is battery voltage there at any other time, the engine is being told to not start or run, by a pissed off ECM. This test is accurate 99% of the time in my experience. It is not unusual and OK to see low voltage, like .2 - 2.4 volts at pin 5. The important thing here is to NOT have battery voltage there, and if you do have it at the wrong times, I have found cutting that wire fixes the problem and running the truck forever that way, causes no harm!

[h=2]NO START TEST #3[/h][h=3]HOT WIRE TEST - THE "FOR SURE TEST" TO DETERMINE IF THE VP44 IS WHY THE ENGINE WON'T START[/h]It is very rare, but possible, for a problem with the wiring harness or the CAN Bus wires to prevent the engine from starting, so if you want to be 100% sure it IS the Injection Pump causing the no start, follow the following directions exactly, to be sure of not damaging a possibly good pump. This test POSITIVELY eliminates the possibility of overlooking an electrical problem caused by other components that could affect the start or run function of the VP44, as long as you have verified fuel delivery to the Injection Pump. Remove the electrical plug at the back of the Injection Pump and hot wire the pins on the pump as follows. Get two wires long enough to reach from the battery to the VP44. Install an INSULATED ¼ inch female spade connector onto one end of each wire. Connect one INSULATED connector to pin 7 on the pump, which is the pin on the BOTTOM row of the socket on the Injection Pump, closest to the engine, to preferably fused (10 amp is fine) positive battery power in the PDC (Fuse box under the hood), or directly to the positive battery terminal if you like to take risks!

Connect the other INSULATED connector to the pin directly above the previous connection, the top row of pins, the one closest to the engine, and attach the other end to battery ground. Now try to start the engine and if it doesn’t start, you absolutely positively 100% need an Injection Pump! If the engine starts this way but NOT with the big plug installed on the pump, you know there is something in the harness or CAN bus wiring to the ECM telling or causing the engine to not start. Call me for help if this is the case.

[h=2]IF YOU HAVE FUEL, POWER AND GROUND, PROVEN BY THE ABOVE TESTS AND STILL HAVE NO START AFTER TEST 3, YOU ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NEED AN INJECTION PUMP![/h]If you want more proof, or really want to know WHY it won’t start, loosen all of the injector lines at the valve cover. Crank the engine for 30 seconds, and if fuel comes out of only one line, better than the others, this indicates a seized rotor, and the engine will never run again until you change the VP44, because only one cylinder is getting fuel. For the engine to start you need HIGH PRESSURE fuel, AND NOT AIR, to POP OFF at least three of the injectors. If you have only a feeble fuel flow from the open lines, you are looking at only Lift Pump pressure, and the engine will never start. To determine if it is or is not HIGH pressure, look for a puddle on the ground after 60 seconds of cranking. No puddle, no high pressure. If high pressure fuel doesn’t come out of the open lines when cranking, the solenoid pintle valve may be stuck, or the pistons may be stuck compressed in the rotor, due to fuel contamination or corrosion. Low pressure can also be caused by an electrical issue in the computer, where the computer doesn’t energize and close the fuel solenoid to make high pressure, so low fuel pressure going through the injector lines is WHY the engine won’t start. Any of these situations confirms that the engine will not start until you replace the VP44, as long as you have done the other tests above.

[Mopar1973Man]

OK, The truck is totally stock with no extra electronics. When the key is on all dash instruments seem OK, and yes WTS comes on properly. The scanner tool says communicating with ECM and reads no fault codes. The key switch will not work for trying to do code reads, it has in the past? I cracked an injector and had no feul while cranking? The ECM and PCM were sent to "Auto Module Source" and they said the ECM was fine but repaired the PCM?(this doesn't seem right).There is feul being pumped up to the filter, the truck had a factory recall when new and a new lift pump installed in the tank. Is there a way to be certain if the pump is the problem? Thanks.

2002 ,5.9, 4x4, 5 speed manual( completely stock)

The best way I know is to install a fuel pressure gauge and test the fuel pressure. During cranking it should be roughly 7-12 PSI and with a starter bump it should be roughly 14-15 PSI without the engine running.

If there is no error codes this makes it a bit tough. There is a article on BlueChip site about hot wiring the VP44 for a start and idle test. It's a way of providing power so the VP44 will at least start and idle.

But typically if the lift pump is working properly with good pressure the VP44 is typically happy too. But being you got a in-tank pump I've got a sneaky feeling the VP44 has taken on damage and the code can't be thrown because the truck isn't running. Most VP44 codes require the engine to at least run even for a short span.