An honest deal?

[hex0rz]

Alright fellas, another 5th wheel trailer question.

Ran to a local RV place to look at some trailers and see what me and the wife would consider living in while I work. Just went there with the intent to see some in person and see what we could get financed for. Took us out on the lot and saw a few we really would like.

We agreed on one and used it as a "baseline" to see what we could get financed for. This is the trailer:

http://www.rv007.com/pre_owned_detail.asp?veh=3011544

We got approved for financing for it. Thats not the problem. I explained to them that I was limited in how heavy I could tow something. The sales guy was like a genuine Larry the cable guy! He was no problem. But his bossman was the one that was trying to smooth it over and tell me that my truck was totally capable of towing this 5th wheel.

He pulled this Up:

http://www.trailerlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Trailer-Life-Towing-Guide-1999.pdf

To show me that it was capable. He asked me what if anything I had done to the truck to "increase" the capacity. Explaining what the difference in HO and SO was.

I told him that I had a tranny rebuilt with some upgraded parts and injectors.

This is whats he said I could tow:

Ram 2500 4WD 5.9 TD* 13,900

d/e,k,m

d

Requires 3.5/3.9:1 axle ratio.

e

Requires 4.09/4.10:1 axle ratio.

k

Club Cab rating slightly lower.

m

Requires manual 5/6-spd transmission. On these points, he explains that since I've upgraded the parts in the transmission, I practically have the equivalent of a manual 5/6 speed tranny.

It makes sense to a point given what the guide factors in. Although, I'm not 100% sure on this. I do not have an auxillary tranny cooler nor ny upgrades in the steering components.

I've still gotta buy an exhaust brake and I need an tranny temp gauge as well. Anyone have any input on whether or not this is a legitimate thing or was he just trying to push a sale?

I do not have plans to tow wet either. But the actual sales guy said that I would be hard pressed to load the trailer with enough goods to exceed the carrying capacity of the trailer. I do not have any atvs or the such at the moment to throw in the back. The tow hauler area would at the moment just serve as a store room for us.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright, some of you boys gotta chime in! I know there are some knowledgable people on here... Gimme !

[GreenRiverCummins]

Hello hex0rz I was unable to pull up the chart you listed with his info on tow rating's but i found this chart at http://dodgeram.info/2001/towing-charts.html I use this my self. As a base line for your truck at "stock" lvl (i know you have upgarded a few item's) but your base line for towing stock is 16,000 pd GCWR so you can safley tow 9'300 pd's stock that is. And the Dry weight of that camper is 13,030 that's 3,730 pd. I myself tow a TT and when i towed the rv home totaly empty compared to it fully loaded with water, supplie's, furniture...etc there was a large difference in weight about 3,000+/-pd. As a rounded number say 2,500 pd added to the 13,030 weight that's 15530 at this point your 6,230 pd over your limit. I myself belive your pushing a 2500 to her limit's not so much the tranny but your cooling system, brake's, and your suspension. I have a 2001 dodge 2500 4x4 QCSB Aw/3.55 gear's (V10) and when towing my TT i usually white knuckle drive to the camp site due to the body roll and bounce in the suspension of course i have a small lift and 36' tire's installed but even when stock was the same if not worse at time's. When compared to my 2001 dodge 3500 4x4 QCLB 5.9HO 6 spd/w3.55 gear's pulling the same load it's really a world of difference smooth sailing no worrie's at all. So in my opinon he's going for a sale over saftey. I would ask if you could hitch up the trailer and haul it down the road and get a feel of it empty and imagine it weighting 3,000 pd's more if he agree's he's good if not walk away In my opinon sorry for long reply wanted to be thorough

[diesel4life]

Im not worth much when it comes to rv`s but Ive done a fair amount of hauling over the years so Ill throw my marbles out there.... When looking at a trailer of any sorts you have to consider the gvw of it and the pin weight. First off you just never know what your going to be hauling in it and second if you were to get pulled over and the gvw is higher than your truck is rated theyre going to throw the book at you. Transmissions along with axles and gear ratios are factors in tow ratings. If youve got 4.10s with a manual you will be capable of hauling more than the 3.55s and an auto trans for example. But just because youve got an upgraded trans doesnt legally increase your gcwr. DOT cops wont like that answer one bit! :nono:Now, in my opinion, your going to be asking too much out of your truck. 3200 pound pin weight is going to be leaning on you pretty heavy and running a toy hauler empty from what Ive seen is worse. Theyre designed to be balanced out with toys in the back so when theres nothing back there it puts more pin weight on the truck. Then youve also got to consider the high profile going down the freeway on a windy day the tails going to be wagging the dog pretty good being a single wheel truck. Shell definitely handle what your looking at, youve got enough power to get down the road and a good set of trailer brakes will get you slowed down. But for safety reasons as well as legal I think you will be better off considering a smaller unit or stepping up to a dually. These are just my opinions gained from my experiences, dont take em to the bank cuz they may not cash it

[flagmanruss]

D4L, I think you are spot on. I am SRW, 4.10 gears, 8800GVW rated and the tongue weight (even worse than a 5r pin weight) is too high returning (black water full) even with the Weight Distributing Hitch. Notice the axle position is 1/3 vs 2/3 so there is naturally a lot of tongue weight. The trailer is a '28' but that's the box length... probably 31-32' overall. This is a lot of trailer.

My truck shrugged off the gooseneck horse trailer... with heavily loaded with camp gear 18' in front of the axles (under the horses). Because the weight was centered on the rear axle. Mama-mia, the jack was barely able to lift the hitch to uncouple.

This was a poor design.

If you not going to load heavy ATVs in the rear, you might want to ballast the rear. How often are you going to move the trailer? My attitude would be different for occasional towing vs frequent.

[diesel4life]

Hey Russ, whats the gvw of your toy hauler? Im not going to get into detail and hijack Hex's thread but weve been browsing for our first family camper. I like the idea of a toy hauler as we are into the atv scene as a family but with my current truck am going to be limited on what I can haul. But Im also going to be stepping up to a crew cab (family is growing) in the next year or so so Im not limiting my options to what my truck is capable of. Thanks,JR

[JOHNFAK]

Hey Russ, whats the gvw of your toy hauler? Im not going to get into detail and hijack Hex's thread but weve been browsing for our first family camper. I like the idea of a toy hauler as we are into the atv scene as a family but with my current truck am going to be limited on what I can haul. But Im also going to be stepping up to a crew cab (family is growing) in the next year or so so Im not limiting my options to what my truck is capable of. Thanks, JR

If your going to sell - do it before it hits 100k miles. You'll lose $1k-$3k for no reason. I like the toy haulers ....... but not for full time living. Only way I saw it work was a single guy with his ATV doing insurance work. Then he kepy the ATV out when loaded on ground .... and converted back storage into an office for work. Id stick 1 ATV sideways on the back of regular 5th wheel on a custom hitch. Seen someone do that with a harley. Not sure what the rules are though.

[diesel4life]

I dont think I could bring myself to sell my old 2nd gen. Theyre getting fewer and farther between and I love the simplicity and durability of it. I really have no interest in going to a newer truck especially an emissions truck but the earlier commonrails seem to be pretty reliable and trouble free. And Im going to need a crewcab so unfortunately my hand is being forced. So if and when the day comes Ill most likely keep my 98 for everyday uses and the crewcab for family outings when we need a truck. My 98 just turned 93k and the body is rock solid, so theres not doubt I will get many more years out of it. Shes my baby!

[JOHNFAK]

I dont think I could bring myself to sell my old 2nd gen. Theyre getting fewer and farther between and I love the simplicity and durability of it. I really have no interest in going to a newer truck especially an emissions truck but the earlier commonrails seem to be pretty reliable and trouble free. And Im going to need a crewcab so unfortunately my hand is being forced. So if and when the day comes Ill most likely keep my 98 for everyday uses and the crewcab for family outings when we need a truck. My 98 just turned 93k and the body is rock solid, so theres not doubt I will get many more years out of it. Shes my baby!

gotchya thought you were selling the 2nd gen ........... I've been debating about sellign mine off an on .......... just a few things Id like to improve like rear disk brakes and interior uplholstery and dash as well as extended cab. Think I'll be keeping her as always - same reasons .......

[hex0rz]

Hello hex0rz I was unable to pull up the chart you listed with his info on tow rating's but i found this chart at http://dodgeram.info/2001/towing-charts.html I use this my self. As a base line for your truck at "stock" lvl (i know you have upgarded a few item's) but your base line for towing stock is 16,000 pd GCWR so you can safley tow 9'300 pd's stock that is. And the Dry weight of that camper is 13,030 that's 3,730 pd. I myself tow a TT and when i towed the rv home totaly empty compared to it fully loaded with water, supplie's, furniture...etc there was a large difference in weight about 3,000+/-pd. As a rounded number say 2,500 pd added to the 13,030 weight that's 15530 at this point your 6,230 pd over your limit. I myself belive your pushing a 2500 to her limit's not so much the tranny but your cooling system, brake's, and your suspension. I have a 2001 dodge 2500 4x4 QCSB Aw/3.55 gear's (V10) and when towing my TT i usually white knuckle drive to the camp site due to the body roll and bounce in the suspension of course i have a small lift and 36' tire's installed but even when stock was the same if not worse at time's. When compared to my 2001 dodge 3500 4x4 QCLB 5.9HO 6 spd/w3.55 gear's pulling the same load it's really a world of difference smooth sailing no worrie's at all. So in my opinon he's going for a sale over saftey. I would ask if you could hitch up the trailer and haul it down the road and get a feel of it empty and imagine it weighting 3,000 pd's more if he agree's he's good if not walk away In my opinon sorry for long reply wanted to be thorough

The chart has the data I listed in my first post. The dry weight of the trailer at 13,xxx K lbs. includes the furniture, etc. Not including the things I would have to add. I have replaced my radiator and gone through the cooling system. I plan on using an exhaust brake in conjunction with everything else. Biggest thing I think is suspension. But I don't get why that would matter much about how much I can tow/haul as its the same for the 3/4 trucks but fall in different category's because of their tranny, gear ratio, etc. I dunno if they will ever go with hitching it up and towing it, but then again I never asked.

Im not worth much when it comes to rv`s but Ive done a fair amount of hauling over the years so Ill throw my marbles out there.... When looking at a trailer of any sorts you have to consider the gvw of it and the pin weight. First off you just never know what your going to be hauling in it and second if you were to get pulled over and the gvw is higher than your truck is rated theyre going to throw the book at you. Transmissions along with axles and gear ratios are factors in tow ratings. If youve got 4.10s with a manual you will be capable of hauling more than the 3.55s and an auto trans for example. But just because youve got an upgraded trans doesnt legally increase your gcwr. DOT cops wont like that answer one bit! Now, in my opinion, your going to be asking too much out of your truck. 3200 pound pin weight is going to be leaning on you pretty heavy and running a toy hauler empty from what Ive seen is worse. Theyre designed to be balanced out with toys in the back so when theres nothing back there it puts more pin weight on the truck. Then youve also got to consider the high profile going down the freeway on a windy day the tails going to be wagging the dog pretty good being a single wheel truck. Shell definitely handle what your looking at, youve got enough power to get down the road and a good set of trailer brakes will get you slowed down. But for safety reasons as well as legal I think you will be better off considering a smaller unit or stepping up to a dually. These are just my opinions gained from my experiences, dont take em to the bank cuz they may not cash it

I have never had to deal with a DOT cop. Can they pull you over for the hell of it just to see if your compliant? That does'nt sound right to me... I would not have to go through weigh stations either, would I? Also, how could they even tell, in reality, how much I would weigh? Pin weight for the listed trailer is 3100 lbs. Going dually is out of the question as well. The boss lady would have my rear if I pushed that idea. Are you saying I should stay away from the 5th wheel in general or just this one specifically?

D4L, I think you are spot on. I am SRW, 4.10 gears, 8800GVW rated and the tongue weight (even worse than a 5r pin weight) is too high returning (black water full) even with the Weight Distributing Hitch. Notice the axle position is 1/3 vs 2/3 so there is naturally a lot of tongue weight. The trailer is a '28' but that's the box length... probably 31-32' overall. This is a lot of trailer. My truck shrugged off the gooseneck horse trailer... with heavily loaded with camp gear 18' in front of the axles (under the horses). Because the weight was centered on the rear axle. Mama-mia, the jack was barely able to lift the hitch to uncouple. If you not going to load heavy ATVs in the rear, you might want to ballast the rear. How often are you going to move the trailer? My attitude would be different for occasional towing vs frequent.

Well, ultimately, I'm banking on going to Yakima, Wa for about 2 1/2 years worth of work by fall. Pull it from North Idaho down that direction and stay there. Probably about 4 hour drive one way. But I would like to occassionally come back "home" once a month or so and see family. Dunno if that would be defined as frequent...

[Mopar1973Man]

I typically don't use either site or listing I pull out the owners manual which typically has the right answers...Also with trailer Dry Weight is meaningless. All weights are scaled weights or GCWR or GVWR. Never use or talk about Dry Weight. Dry weight is used for the shipping industry to ship the trailer from manufacture to dealer that all.Now talk to CajFlynn about this and you'll see a different answer all together.

[hex0rz]

I typically don't use either site or listing I pull out the owners manual which typically has the right answers... [ATTACH=CONFIG]5095[/ATTACH] Also with trailer Dry Weight is meaningless. All weights are scaled weights or GCWR or GVWR. Never use or talk about Dry Weight. Dry weight is used for the shipping industry to ship the trailer from manufacture to dealer that all. Now talk to CajFlynn about this and you'll see a different answer all together. [ATTACH=CONFIG]5096[/ATTACH]

HA! Yea, I looked in my owners manual and it wont even list 3.55 gear.... LOOK AT THIS! http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/towing-hauling/470937-whats-heaviest-youve-towed.html ^ These boys are pulling some extreme loads!

[flagmanruss]

The sign on the road said all commercial vehicles >>> to scale. I have commercial plates & had my personal horse trailer in tow. The DOT cops told me to "Beat It!" OK, color me gone.