I currently own a 99 24 valve 4-door, it is being sold to my younger brother because it is a 5 speed and uncomfortable for me to drive. I had no intention of replacing it now but to wait and look for another 24 valve automatic.A young man who owns a A/C and automotive repair shop did some work for me and I explained what I was doing. He brought in a 97 which automatic, it needs paint but not too bad condition inside or out. 229,000 miles and was used for hauling a 40 ft toy hauler all over the country from coast to coast. The owner owns a transmission shop and at one time was big into racing. This 12 valve is quite compared to my 24 valve. The 12 valve also drives great, transmission shifts hard and deliberately up and down depending on speed. Dash is in great shape and everything works. Asking price is $5,500. Completely stock as far as I know but I could be wrong. What do I need to look for from a buyers prospective, what should I be inspecting or looking over. What are some of the issues with 12 valve trucks that are common. I can't believe how smooth this truck is to drive. What kind of mileage can I expect to see in town and highway. Are there any companies that sell all of the interior items to rebuild it?

 

I'm asking too many questions I know but if anybody has an opinion and feels like adding to this post please do. One is better than none and I could use some advice. Thanks.

3 hours ago, Cowboy said:

Glad you like my avatar!  

Here's a couple links I've got saved.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-non-powertrain/23378-fuel-gauge-stuck-full.html

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-non-powertrain/387473-fuel-sending-unit-repair-under-1-a.html

Well Cowboy you always seem to have just the right link(s) for an old Diesel Head Retired like me. I looked at both links. Both are good ways to correct the issue and if they don't something else will show up. The only thing I hate about the last link is dropping the tank which I have done before with the help of a friend. It was half full at the time. I had just replaced the VP44, didn't know anything about a Cummins engine. Pretty big task to take on a newbie, but guess what? All the information I needed was on this Forum including a video. I also discovered that the Diesel Part/Repair business was going full blast and also had plenty of videos too. Found that information as well right here because when you don't know a darn thing about what your working on you look and use any key words to begin on. So I was destined to be successful from the get go. So, support this Forum with yearly dues, and then what ever I can each month. Cummins Forum is the other site I use but I don't remember the amount that was required to be a paying member. I think you would agree with me that out of all the Diesel Forums you can find, Mopar1973Man.com is more family orientated. These folks call and check on their members from time to time and leave the bragging rights at home, it makes the learning better and the terminology starts to hit home. I know that is strange coming from a member that has NO FRIENDS to be found listed, I have to laugh at that with the rest of the pack lol. I'm honestly still learning how to navigate throughout the Forum.

After the tank was dropped and the old electric motor was removed I engineered what I needed in order to make it all work and no more dropping fuel tanks.

I didn't know about the critical fuel pressure setting so it was a blessing I didn't drive more than 40 miles before it completely failed which forced me to put the Raptor in place on the block. I never put a temporary fuel pressure gauge in place to check the fuel pressure. I assumed it would be great and no worries with the Raptor in place.

I was shocked when I finally put a pressure gauge on the top of the fuel filter, 12 PSI, Yikes. Now it was time to stop calling my stupid over and over again and turn the pressure using a 9/16 open end wrench and a long flat blade screwdriver. A simple task. I learned a big lesson on that one. It hopefully didn't do any damage for the little time I ran it that way 35K miles back. I know I'm a little long winded but I have been sitting around for a long time and needed some suggestions and just like anyone else I go to the Forum.

 Hey I'll share with you for a moment and tell you what I want to start getting involved with. I bought a new/old welding machine before Christmas. A Miller 330 A/BP, AC DC High Frequency Welding Machine. I knew it was mine when I laid eyes on it. 1983 machine that looks new and has barely been used. What I am saying is I want to make some videos to post on You Tube about welding. Getting started and learning how the real world is, not a clean piece of steel. I want to start taking pictures of everything I do working on my truck, I have a camera for that but I don't have a Camcorder nor do I know what to look for that won't break the bank or my back. I know we must have members that know how to do all of this and what works and what doesn't, so throw some suggestions at me

God Bless,

Paul Greenlee

Edited January 15, 20169 yr by Greenlee
To shorten the page length

You got started with these monsters about the same way I did.  Truck wasn't running right, ended up pulling the tank which was about 1/2 full.  Finally found my air leak, fixed that.  Ran it for a while, checked fuel pressure, 2 psi, OFV fixed that.  Turned out to be a really good engine if you feed it good fuel.

That's a Nice Welder!  Can't wait to see how it goes.  I got a stick welder that I'm getting better with, plus an old mig "miller sidekick".  It doesn't run quite right, but can put out some decent welds if you manipulate it just right.  I recently used it to redo the front bumper/grille/rack on one of the Honda rancher 350's because we tore it off. haha

On the camera, I got a used one off eBay recently, it was $40 and does everything I need it to, you can get better, but for taking pictures/videos of truck parts, being shoved into a jungle of wires, hoses, and cables... It does fine.

Edited January 23, 20169 yr by Cowboy

On 1/23/2016 at 9:52 PM, Cowboy said:

You got started with these monsters about the same way I did.  Truck wasn't running right, ended up pulling the tank which was about 1/2 full.  Finally found my air leak, fixed that.  Ran it for a while, checked fuel pressure, 2 psi, OFV fixed that.  Turned out to be a really good engine if you feed it good fuel.

That's a Nice Welder!  Can't wait to see how it goes.  I got a stick w

 

elder that I'm getting better with, plus an old mig "miller sidekick".  It doesn't run quite right, but can put out some decent welds if you manipulate it just right.  I recently used it to redo the front bumper/grille/rack on one of the Honda rancher 350's because we tore it off. haha

On the camera, I got a used one off eBay recently, it was $40 and does everything I need it to, you can get better, but for taking pictures/videos of truck parts, being shoved into a jungle of wires, hoses, and cables... It does fine.

I seem to always start out on the wrong foot when it comes to buying something. It always works out in the long run thank God, His mercy is all I have at times. When I first saw the Miller 330 A/BP I knew it was going to be mine. Personally I have owned about around 12 to 14 machines, all top of the line except for the first electric AC. This is one field that I am an expert in. No I have welded everything but I have welded more than most will every get a chance to put their hands on in my lifetime. Am I the best in the land, absolutely not. I try to be good at what I know and how hard I have applied it to my work. I listen to anyone in the business, young or old, that has knowledge to share and I am thankful for it. Never stop trying to learn, age has nothing to do with it.  

If I can ever be of assistance Cowboy let me know, you have helped me out plenty already.

Your camera buying is the way I need to go, that's a great way to find what you want cheap but still does a good job. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Thanks again,        I looked at the links on the fuel tanks but I thought you sent me another on the transmission, maybe I'm mistaken.

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by Greenlee
Forgot to add something about a camera

Greenlee, ever use one of these?  It is a rebadged Miller. 

Yes I Have...it is a great machine. Years ago and I don't know the complete story but maybe I will investigate a little but Miller and Airco were the same except for the paint color. I guess in the long run Airco was bought out or blended in with Miller, who owns the majority of names still selling welding equipment. You have a nice machine CMS, I thought it would be a little, bitty, machine held together with bailing wire or something. Clean that baby up and get your cables rolled up nice and tight and a 10 perimeter painted with a good gloss 2 part paint of any design you think would scare all others away.

I'll have to get some pictures of my little baby tomorrow and post them for you.

I think I mentioned before that I went to automatic on my 12v for various reasons that I am sorry for bringing up all the time. One thing about this life that I always share is you can't change one Iota of the past but you can make everyday count that you are dealing with to be a victory when you look back the next time. I'm in that boat now...the past is the past so why bring it up? A day with a loved one, your spouse, one of your kids, or grand-kids, or friends that are loyal to you is again worth everything especially when you look back, these are the little things you don't want to ever change in the past. Amen.

Back to the automatic in my 12v, it's going in and out of lock out or OD every time I go up a slight grade completely unloaded and I have lost weight so don't blame me lol. The guy I bought it from has a transmission shop and built this one beefed up more than a stock transmission. Fluid level is good, he told me regardless of what anybody has told me about checking the fluid level only check it running with the emergency brake on in Drive.

Could it be something simple like a filter change or band adjustments? Or should I start looking for a replacement or a change over back to a NV4500? I knew if this happened I would be down for a while until I could budget the funds for it. My truck needs paint to be in better shape. The engine smokes pretty good starting up cold or if I wait a few days before I go anywhere.

I have to confess that I miss my 24v now that I understand a little more why the VP44 fails. I Don't Believe a re-builder can be in the same class as Bosch when they were new. I do believe if  you buy a 24v and the in tank pump has been replaced with an after market set up under or on the frame side rails running the correct pressure to keep it alive will go the miles for you and give you good dependable service. In the mean time I need to figure this one out. An automatic is great for me but I would rather endure some difficulty with a 5 Speed that will last than to start going through repairs on a automatic that needs to be built in order to last.

Any Suggestions???????????????? 

Could be stray AC voltage from the alternator. You could pull the fuse and some folks say disconnect the lead from the alternator, take it for a ride and see if it still does it. If it does you found your problem. You can also have your alternator tested for ac noise. Just beware alot of the parts are not good at this.

Your builders way to check transmission oil is correct, any other way won't read right.

Yeah, Your automatic problem sounds electrical.  Could also be the TPS 

 

The smoke on startup, does the engine sputter a lot?  Or just grey smoke a bit?  If you feel like pulling the injectors I can pop test them for you and set them to whatever pressure you wish for my cost.

1 hour ago, dripley said:

Could be stray AC voltage from the alternator. You could pull the fuse and some folks say disconnect the lead from the alternator, take it for a ride and see if it still does it. If it does you found your problem. You can also have your alternator tested for ac noise. Just beware alot of the parts stores are not good at this.

That should say if it does NOT do it you found your problem.

Hey everyone I appreciate all the help and suggestions. I had another doctors appointment across the bay from where I live so I can give you a more accurate description of what the transmission is doing. At low speeds of 25 to 45 in OD it would shift back and forth, back and forth what seemed like O/D to Lock-Out. I thought it was going to kill it so I took it out of O/D and it felt like it was shifting back in forth between 3rd and Lock-Out. It really acted out on any small grade I was driving up. At several points it did good with the cruise control on and set. Didn't shift nearly as much and didn't shift at all driving normal speeds from 60 mph to 80 mph. For me driving home today the interstate was better than city or county roads with posted slower speed limits. My radiator temperature didn't change any. I also checked the fluid level and it was correct.

If I removed a fuse to isolate the alternator like suggested it wouldn't shift into O/D or Lock-Out, right? Or what should I look for? And on the TPS which I know nothing about, well I guess I could go to the links you left me to find out.

I have new injectors, DVs, and the AFC Live II with new gauges. I didn't get any of it installed yet and now I'm wondering if the truck is worth it or not. I'm probably over thinking things now because of the transmission acting up. I'll do my best to check it out like you and Dripley suggested. I'm going to go look at the link you left me CMS, and thank you for the great offer on the injectors. It starts off rough blowing black and grey smoke but after a couple of minutes it idles fine, it just blows black and grey smoke in a haze when accelerating. I hate to waste these new injectors on this truck and I guess I don't want poor more money into this 12v like the 24v and not be able to recoup it. That's why I'm a little conservative right now. it's late for me so I'll get back on tomorrow.

If you disconnect the alternator and that is the problem everything should work normally.

On 1/26/2016 at 8:42 AM, dripley said:

If you disconnect the alternator and that is the problem everything should work normally.

Hey fellows, I was caught up with appointments so it took a little longer to respond. I called my transmission builder to get some history on the transmission. He drove that truck for several years putting about 50K on it. Said it was built right to pull, besides being a daily driven truck it towed his RV part time as well. He ask me to bring it to him before I got into it and let him take a look. When I get all the details I'll write them down and post it. Thanks for all the suggestions, I just found out there is a computer for the transmission....I had no idea on the 12v, thought it was old school like the engine. I got a couple of more questions for tomorrow, I might have to start a new post for the subject I have, hope you all have a blessed weekend. 

 

Edited January 29, 20169 yr by Greenlee
typed the wrong word

Good deal!  Nice that you have the history and a local contact to assist with it.  

On 1/29/2016 at 4:47 PM, CSM said:

Good deal!  Nice that you have the history and a local contact to assist with it.  

A little update, picked my truck up today and Marice (The Owner) told me to drive it around for a few days to see if it would jump between gears like it was doing. If no issues then bring me $65 and we are good. I also got some history on what was done to the truck while he owned it. Before I bring that up I want to say it was running great and was nothing like it was before. Marice said he cleaned every connection, ground that had anything to do with the electrical side of the transmission. No problems so far driving it, shifts great and drives great.

Marice built the transmission 4 years ago, everything is stock except for a shift kit and I'm not sure what that would involve. He also stated the torque converter was stock and it had been driven 25K when he sold it to me. Prior to me buying the truck he had the dash pulled, new A/C compressor and new back to the heater core under the dash. New water pump, brakes, good set of tires, water pump, top radiator hose, and replaced the fuel and oil filter with a oil change. There was a couple of other items that I can't remember but will write it all down when I go back to pay him. I need to put a log together on mileage and parts that were replaced when I see him again. I guess there was more to the deal than he told me about when I bought it. A lot of bases have already been covered that I don't have to worry with to my surprise. I had even considered selling it to pick one out that was cosmetically in better shape and go back to the 5 speed. I believe the transmission was acting up since I took it over because it is totally different now. He said it sat for months at a time until he needed to pull his RV around and it's taken 4 years to put the low amount of miles on it. Marice said it needed the connectors cleaned and ground with some connections to the computer. I feel like I got off pretty good on this one and I feel better about driving the truck as well. I mentioned the fuel gauge didn't work and he told me they had put a brand new float assembly in the tank. I was getting ready to get some help lined up and drop the tank to do the same thing. Well this is enough to think about right now, I'm going to drive it and see how it does.

On 1/29/2016 at 4:47 PM, CSM said:

Good deal!  Nice that you have the history and a local contact to assist with it.  

Last night I couldn't remember sending unit or the A/C system parts that were mentioned. You all were right on the money with this. I think Marice did a better job than I would because he already knows where all the hook ups are.

When I take off extremely slow it shifts into 2nd at about 15mph and 3rd at about 25mph and OD around 35 which is not close before. Normal driving the range is farther apart and lock-out about 50mph. It all depends on how hard you are pushing the pedal. The shifts are hardly noticeable very fast and smooth. I wish I had another truck to compare it to. I am not sure what is the normal shift range is.

I am thinking there could be a short in the wires between the fuel gauge and plugin on the tank. I can't imagine a brand new sending unit is sticking from the way it was working prior to being stuck on full. The gauge drops to empty (MT) with the key off and to full with it on. It's not a big deal as much as convenient to know when to fill up. I'll keep looking at miles between fill ups until I can trust the gauge again once fixed. I'll post the cure for the gauge and results of driving for a few days with the transmission. 

I have looked at shift kits so I can find out exactly what type was used. Should the Torque Converter be replaced with an after market? what kind of difference would it make on the transmission as far as what kind of HP it could handle if it changes at all? I guess what I am trying to ask is there any benefit to replace the Torque Converter because it now has a shift kit?

 

 

The stock TC is very loose and inefficient.  A upgraded one will help a lot, it will:

• Keep the Tranny Cooler.
• Improve Acceleration.
• Improve MPG.
• Hold More Power then Stock

 

Just because you have a shift kit doesn't mean you need a aftermarket TC, but it will still help.  

Before you throw to much power at the tranny, you may want to talk to your tranny guy about what he suggests.  Auto tranny upgrades is not my strong suit, but I believe there are a couple other small items that you can add to help it hold power.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-drivetrain-except-engine/452157-proper-upgrade-list-transmission.html

Edited February 3, 20169 yr by Cowboy

Great link to the transmission build and what you should do. It's still shifting back and forth not as bad as before and I know where it does it all the time. I called Marice yesterday and told him how it's shifting. I also suggested I drive it around for several more days to pin it down so I could show him what's going on.

I need some input on shift points. Driving it did help out. The only time I can get it to mess up is at low speeds. From a dead stop going slow it shifts from 1st to 2nd somewhere around 10 to12 mph. 3rd shifts at 18 to 19 mph every time. You can floor it from a dead stop and it shifts at these same points every time fast or slow. When I drive it slow and get past 30 mph it starts shifting back and forth between O/D and Lockout. Once I hit 43 it stops shifting this way. But going slow and after shifting to 3rd it picks up speed but below driving it hard, and won't shift to O/D until 55 to 60 mph. Same thing if you floor it.

Is this normal for this transmission being hooked up to a diesel? Is this how your truck(s) shift out?

And Dripley, what should I be looking for if I disconnect the alternator and drive it. Will it still get voltage to the transmission from the batteries only?  Should it **** at different points with the alternator disconnected?  I guess i need to look at a manual that would tell me how every thing electrically works on the transmission to better understand how it ties together. Can't help it if I sound like a rattling idiot on this, I don't know anything about transmissions, never did except it was expensive in my younger days when I was tearing up everything. Are there any books that tell you how to tear the transmission down in detail and reassemble? Believe me when I say I am completely in the dark on transmissions.

one other point, when you turn O/D off, it still shifts into 3rd around 18mph and holds it up to any speed you want to drive. It sounds like a 1968 Z28 4-Speed with 4.56 gears wound up so tight that 45mph is tops. Any thing you can share is welcomed.

Is your TV cable hooked up?  That will affect the shift points. As a starting point at wide open throttle the TV should be at maximum travel. 

Disconnecting the alternator should stop the tranny from hunting for od and lockup IIRC. I am not a auto man myself. But have seen this suggested to help find a cure. Stray ac voltage will cause the above problem. It would not, I believe have anything to do with the sift points you are describing.

On 2/4/2016 at 1:41 PM, CSM said:

Is your TV cable hooked up?  That will affect the shift points. As a starting point at wide open throttle the TV should be at maximum travel. 

I'm going to have to look the TV cable up but from what you are describing it sounds like

This is where I dozed off and didn't finish, sorry. I didn't know I had stopped until I went up to check all the conversations.

 

On 2/4/2016 at 5:19 PM, dripley said:

Disconnecting the alternator should stop the tranny from hunting for od and lockup IIRC. I am not a auto man myself. But have seen this suggested to help find a cure. Stray ac voltage will cause the above problem. It would not, I believe have anything to do with the sift points you are describing.

It makes sense what you are saying. The O/D and lockup both work off current???that works a switch or switches. I don't think I have ever learned much about converters with the exception to a stall converter. I should add this to my bucket list before it's too late lol. I always thought shift points changed according to amount of fluid pressure from the pump while accelerating, if so something is not adding up how no matter how it is driven it hits 3rd at 28mph, that's a little low to me. I found the accelerator cable and below it must be the TV cable. I couldn't see full movement, not enough light. I know I'm long winded and take the longest path to explain anything but this does help me understand what it takes to have a reliable automatic. In the same sense you can spend thousands on a manual with clutch, pressure plate and so one including input and output shaft which I'm not positive if both or just one that is changed out.

Maybe this is ignorant to ask but what is the difficulty building a good transmission? People are trained and certified rebuilding companies builds thousands every year, they have all the tools, test stands, and training to put a well built, reliable transmission out for the customers. Is there something going on from the factory that the re-builders have never learned? Engines can be built all day long and when rebuilt continue to give great service. So why do automatics fail all the time even when supposedly built by an expert? 

trying to isolate the alternator in the morning to see the results you told me about. Thanks for the info, I'll give you a report of what happened and how it shifts or doesn't shift with it not connected.

Edited February 15, 20169 yr by Greenlee
didn't finish before it was posted