I am chewing the treads for info on turbos.... my cr has a healthy he351cw holset that i have on my list to modify or replace.

why change? i have a j-06 Smarty thats begging to be allowed to be set on sw3 [100hp]

the exhaust housing is tight [9cm] [internal rgr]

 

turbo threads that end in ''gray hair'' are to common! i want to do it once! 

 

my goals= 100+hp tune....maybe 50hp inj. if/when i change inj.    cai    exh.    fass lift pump    more????exh. manifold?    cam????  you get the idea

mostly empty driving   low elevation    some hills    some towing   

Edited June 30, 20159 yr by organicfarmer

Our elevation averages 2500' in my area of the state and terrain is hilly with miles long gradual grades and some quick steep grades and then the worst is our head and cross winds a lot of days 15-30++ mph.

thank-you!  john, did your dads turbo 'just' have a machined housing & bigger turbine wheel? nothing done to comp.? one of toms jobs?    i talked to tom at turbo re-sorce, & his advice was with a j-06 smarty to use a moded stock 351 w/a billet ext. tip comp. wheel [60/86-90] & [60/70] exh. wheel.       if i add 50hp inj. to go with a s300 type turbo 62/65/.70, with this, he highly advised going with efi-live,....i expect smarty udc would work to. this is what i would check into......

Why not garret bb????? he said they stopped making them! but,,,,he has a plan! he's working on it!

Tators specs are 62/89 ext. tip billet comp. & 65/76 turbine.......

 

toss me some thoughts!  thank-you!!!

Edited July 8, 20159 yr by organicfarmer

Nothing was done to the comp wheel. I don't think it is needed on the HE351 as the turbine is the restriction over the compressor. Even with an upgraded turbine I think the housing is more of a restriction than the compressor. Last I spoke with Tom he didn't have flow sheets for the billet wheel but maybe that has changed. The only way it would be worth it, IMHO, for a tow rig was if the compressor was more effecient and produced the airflow with less heat.

 

Just because you add bigger injectors doesn't mean you need to add the power. I run ~90hp injectors and my power is the same as it was with the stock injectors thanks to custom tuning. I wanted bigger injectors to cut duration and require less timing but get a quicker and more efficient burn. I am doing the same thing on my dads 06 with the ~90hp injectors and he makes a bit less power than I do. Very little timing is required and the motor is more effective.

 

So it all depends on what you want to do. If you want the power of the SJR and 50's then towing performance will be limited or a properly sized turbo for the fuel will not tow as well unless you go twins.

 

This is why desired, and actual, use are very important in tuning/turbo/injector selection.

 

From the one person I know with that Tater combo it will not tow well with any decent trailer and that was with a manual trans so the auto could be worse.

 

EFI Live is not an option for you as it only works on 06+ trucks.

 

I like my Garrett BB but as you said they are no longer in production and last I heard Tom was out.

 

So you must think about how you plan to use the truck.

 

 

Our elevation averages 2500' in my area of the state and terrain is hilly with miles long gradual grades and some quick steep grades and then the worst is our head and cross winds a lot of days 15-30++ mph.

 

I suspect you will have zero issues at that elevation unless its a 7%+ grade and above 100°F.

I can see that bigger inj. w/tuning to limit power work well.....prob. what i will do when i need inj. 

 

i like tom's caution w/turbos....he will not recommend one till he is sure it works. Tator is addvertizing himself on his facebook page,..i think hes pretty good but im following several guys on C.F. who just got his turbo ,i'll try to learn at there expence! [non of them have a drive psi gauge]    seems his turbo has good mid. range punch.

 

i have time, turbos are my intrist, so i'll keep learning! i am leaning towards tom's moded stock w/billet wheel.

on smarty with UDC, what is needed in addition to the programmer? a dongel with someone to write a tune?   [$?]   i would love to get rid of my ''lite'' smoke trail, bugs me, maybe this would help...

if i want to turn off post inj.   do i need to to upgrade to s-06?   

 

thank-you!!!!! have a great day! 

The post injection should be off on all SJR tunes. 

 

If you want to do UDC yourself all you need is a MAIN dongle. If you want to have someone tune for you it takes a MAIN and a VIN dongle plus a tune fee. The company I tune for sells all 3 for $600... for reference and not advertising. 

 

Yes I like the way Tom does business. 

 

Have you tried a different timing level for you smoke trail? Say TM3?

The POD tunes on the JR were way cleaner than it was in total stock state even on my 05, If you think it has a light haze now you would have been in shock and awe at how smoky it was with the original tune before I updated it to POD.

The POD tunes on the JR were way cleaner than it was in total stock state even on my 05, If you think it has a light haze now you would have been in shock and awe at how smoky it was with the original tune before I updated it to POD.

Cleaner then stock?? wow!     maybe old smarty was so you could find your way home?!   [ hansel & gretal! ]     smoke trail.......

The post injection should be off on all SJR tunes. 

 

If you want to do UDC yourself all you need is a MAIN dongle. If you want to have someone tune for you it takes a MAIN and a VIN dongle plus a tune fee. The company I tune for sells all 3 for $600... for reference and not advertising. 

 

Yes I like the way Tom does business. 

 

Have you tried a different timing level for you smoke trail? Say TM3?

 I had asked smarty [phone & smarty's site] about post inj. & i was told not turned off, they seemed a bit vauge.....maybe they didnt want to say,.... epa???

i did see the post on tdr that it IS off...  would i be able to hear? i do remember that on heavy throttle an extra 'sound' would come on [engine],     but i dont remember if that was with the edge evo-ht programmer or j-06. i think edge... when i get my ram back from trans service i'll check again.....

 

thanks for the udc info! what does your company need? [info] to write a tune.      also, if i would add inj. after getting udc, what would i need to do to change tuning?   thanks!!!

 

i am running sw3-2-4 pod@85,- seems[?] better then sw2-2-4......     no, i will not find my way home  , but its there,,,,,maybe its time to watch where im driving......  & not worry about it....would udc help here?

when eng. is cold, i ''think'' i hear a bit of timing rattle. this sound goes away when end. warmer up. i guess its timing...

Edited July 12, 20159 yr by organicfarmer

bump........

Fill me in as to why post injection is bad and you are worried about turning it off? I have not followed the performance end of things for a few years since selling my 02 and have not dug into performance knowledge of the 3rd gens much other than the basics. This forum is my only diesel go to spot anymore other than a VW TDI forum only when I have an issue. Not enough time in life anymore. I am on boating and outdoor forums more than anything now days.

Fill me in as to why post injection is bad and you are worried about turning it off? I have not followed the performance end of things for a few years since selling my 02 and have not dug into performance knowledge of the 3rd gens much other than the basics. This forum is my only diesel go to spot anymore other than a VW TDI forum only when I have an issue. Not enough time in life anymore. I am on boating and outdoor forums more than anything now days.

 

 

The timing and quantity of the 3rd event is emissions based, or at least mostly emissions based. I don't have the map with me but it isn't really beneficial for performance/power/economy. 

 

There are some EFI Live tuners that are using the 3rd event to help spool large singles. 

 

From a non-EPA standpoint if the 3rd event isn't used for spooling it should be turned off. 

 

 I had asked smarty [phone & smarty's site] about post inj. & i was told not turned off, they seemed a bit vauge.....maybe they didnt want to say,.... epa???

i did see the post on tdr that it IS off...  would i be able to hear? i do remember that on heavy throttle an extra 'sound' would come on [engine],     but i dont remember if that was with the edge evo-ht programmer or j-06. i think edge... when i get my ram back from trans service i'll check again.....

 

thanks for the udc info! what does your company need? [info] to write a tune.      also, if i would add inj. after getting udc, what would i need to do to change tuning?   thanks!!!

 

i am running sw3-2-4 pod@85,- seems[?] better then sw2-2-4......     no, i will not find my way home  , but its there,,,,,maybe its time to watch where im driving......  & not worry about it....would udc help here?

when eng. is cold, i ''think'' i hear a bit of timing rattle. this sound goes away when end. warmer up. i guess its timing...

 

I have email traffic from MADS stating it has been turned off in all software's but I have no way to verify it. 

 

You would not be able to hear it and it doesn't occur as often as people think. You were probably hearing the wastegate. 

 

Shoot me a PM about UDC. 

John, with all the new diesels on the market from other manufacturers...................they all have "multiple" injection events correct???  Some even reporting as many as 5 or 6 IIRC.  All those extra events cannot just be for emissions and/or turbo spool.  Just thinking out loud here.

John, with all the new diesels on the market from other manufacturers...................they all have "multiple" injection events correct???  Some even reporting as many as 5 or 6 IIRC.  All those extra events cannot just be for emissions and/or turbo spool.  Just thinking out loud here.

 

Emissions, emissions, and emissions. 

 

There is still a pilot and a main event. 3, 4, and 5 are for emissions. The pilot is mainly for quiet combustion. 

Emissions, emissions, and emissions. 

 

There is still a pilot and a main event. 3, 4, and 5 are for emissions. The pilot is mainly for quiet combustion. 

 

So you think it's essentially still flushing diesel down the toilet/exhaust pipe???   I would think with that many events, that some of them have to be for power.  It'd be interesting to find where in the cycle all those events are happening.

THANKS! the pre inj. i do like...a lot less noise under these trucks hoods...post as was said is epa. i was told that its not off, but is reduced, by a 'one' that should know....i'll stop digging on post inj.

 

I did talk with coffmens in texas & am planning to tap into john's expertise with udc & see if i can get rid of my ''hansel 'n' gretal'' trail...

 

i am leaning towards getting a tator 62-65-12, a lot of guys seem happy with theirs. This just might help with my 'hansel trail' as well.......

 

hopefully my 'hummin cummins will be ready to pick up today!!!! [trans.]        

So you think it's essentially still flushing diesel down the toilet/exhaust pipe???   I would think with that many events, that some of them have to be for power.  It'd be interesting to find where in the cycle all those events are happening.

  I do know one thing....'its hapenen REAL fast'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  I do know one thing....'its hapenen REAL fast'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Got that right!!

So you think it's essentially still flushing diesel down the toilet/exhaust pipe???   I would think with that many events, that some of them have to be for power.  It'd be interesting to find where in the cycle all those events are happening.

 

The goal is to reduce peak pressure which is for reducing emissions. Even on the SCR trucks they have tuning for emissions just not as bad as 07.5-12. Power can be made with one bigger shot on the main event than several smaller shots, but one big shot means more pressure and that is generally more efficient. The further you get from peak pressure at 12-15° ATDC the more fuel you turn to heat instead of power. You can only get so much fuel in early with a break in injection events. 

 

It's is like having oversized injectors but not increasing the power output. A shorter injection time with a quicker ignition and faster burn is better for power/performance/economy but produces a higher cylinder temp and pressure which results in NOx production. My rwhp is the same with the BBi's as it was with stock injectors but it makes the power a lot better. 

The goal is to reduce peak pressure which is for reducing emissions. Even on the SCR trucks they have tuning for emissions just not as bad as 07.5-12. Power can be made with one bigger shot on the main event than several smaller shots, but one big shot means more pressure and that is generally more efficient. The further you get from peak pressure at 12-15° ATDC the more fuel you turn to heat instead of power. You can only get so much fuel in early with a break in injection events. 

 

It's is like having oversized injectors but not increasing the power output. A shorter injection time with a quicker ignition and faster burn is better for power/performance/economy but produces a higher cylinder temp and pressure which results in NOx production. My rwhp is the same with the BBi's as it was with stock injectors but it makes the power a lot better. 

Agreed..............was just making sure I understood where you were coming from.   The up-side-down V vs. the up-side-down U essentially.

Well,...here it is!      TATER BUILT 62-65-BILLET EXT. TIP 'GLORIFIED WHISTLE PIG!!'      Awesome exhaust whistle!   Everybody KNOWS i have a turbo now! Bye-bye whisper-weak stocker!!

 

Edited August 11, 20159 yr by organicfarmer