Hello all. Been lurking for a while, first post!

This truck is still new to me, trying to figure out what’s normal and what’s not.

 

2006 G56 4wd 3.73 DRW 163k

 

I have a little over 3000 miles on a long block with a Hamilton 178/208 with reman injectors I sourced from my local Bosch facility. While I’d prefer a Smarty Jr, truck came with a Juice with Attitude so I have been running that. All else is stock.

 

My normal trip and main use for this truck is hauling my 8.5x20 standard height bumper pull enclosed with my Jeep inside from CT to PA via interstates 84 and 81. Trailer is roughly 8500lb loaded up, so I am guessing I am somewhere between 16-17k lb gross, though I have not been to the scale.

 

The hills on this route are not what I would call extreme, but some are relatively steep and many drag on for 2-3 miles. With the stock tune but Edge boost fooling to 35lb, just about every hill would have my boost maxed out there with EGTs between 1200-1300*F with Edge reporting 100% load. On medium sized rolling hills this was enough to maintain 70mph, but not on the longer grades. Not much change between Edge settings between stock and 2, but 3 seemed to provide a noticeable bump. On 3, medium rolling hills were down to 25lb and 70% load, EGTs about the same but still losing speed on longer grades. When pulling grades losing speed, I noticed that boost and EGTs would reduce with rpm, I would max out around 30lb and 1150*F by the time I was down to 2000rpm, this differs from my 12v a few years ago that would fuel consistently no matter what, though I realize this is a different animal and may be normal operation.

 

70 mph puts me about 2300rpm. Both fill ups netted me 9mpg, which seems low to me. Daily driving seems to be about 15mpg. Towards the end of the trip I separated from my friends with lighter setups and slowing down to 65-70mph and the truck seems happier there, 70+ and it seemed it needed 15lb of boost just to maintain speed, though there is basically zero flat terrain on the entire trip.

 

Some things to note:

Not making or consuming oil

Light black haze pulling hard with Edge on 3, no other smoke

Rail pressure is 20kpsi full load at 2300rpm, idles at 7kpsi

Baldwin filter in stock canister, Donaldson 3mic/water sep on frame rail

I have slight shake in the truck most noticeable through the shifter between 1600 and 2000rpm, I can’t hear a miss in the engine or exhaust and all exhaust manifold ports laser thermometer’d within 10*F or so at idle and 1500rpm – balance issue somewhere?

 

 

Does this sound normal? Should I start poking around my truck or adjust my expectations? Or do I need to just slow down. With 325/610 stock, I figured 8500lb would be a breeze at 70. It does it, but it seems to be working.

On 12/19/2017 at 6:11 PM, JPhauler87 said:

I was looking at this pretty hard. About $1000+ less than the 62/65 setups people seem to be running. $265 with free shipping in their eBay store.

 

http://turbolabofamerica.com/he351-exhaust-housing-upgrade/

 

I emailed Turbo Resource a few weeks ago and haven’t heard anything back. I’ll give them a call.

 

I have been going back and forth on tuning or hardware change.

 

I wouldn't go that big on the turbine wheel. 70x60 seems to be the best one for towing applications. 

When I had MightyWhitey, my '04.5, empty cruising 65-70mph I'd be 4-7psi of boost depending on wind and temperature.  Your's seem high to me.

15 hours ago, dorkweed said:

empty cruising 65-70mph I'd be 4-7psi of boost depending on wind and temperature.

 

Agreed. Even my 2nd Gen is the same realm for boost at those speeds.

16 hours ago, dorkweed said:

When I had MightyWhitey, my '04.5, empty cruising 65-70mph I'd be 4-7psi of boost depending on wind and temperature.  Your's seem high to me.

 

Your’s seems a little low to me based on my 05 and dads 06. I don’t have that turbo anymore and dads is down to 4-7 psi at 70 now with the modified turbine.  

 

Also the OP’s truck has hips and a G56, both of which will effect cruise boost. 

 

8 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Agreed. Even my 2nd Gen is the same realm for boost at those speeds.

 

Which sounds about right for the turbo you run. 

I think I see your point. The 3rd Gens are a 9cm² exhuast which should be a touch higher. Being where my Hybrid 35/40 is a 12cm² housing which should be a bit lower. 

2 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I think I see your point. The 3rd Gens are a 9cm² exhuast which should be a touch higher. Being where my Hybrid 35/40 is a 12cm² housing which should be a bit lower. 

 

Housings is part of it and so is the turbine wheel size. The HE351 has a smaller housing and wheel, which drives the boost up at low flow. 

 

Even my dads modded 351 has the same size turbine wheel as a HX35 with a smaller turbine housing and his cruise boost dropped quite a bit and is inline with that you see. 

Debated 60 vs 64 wheel... went with the 64. LOVE it so far. Can’t wait to get the trailer hooked up. That season is coming soon!

 

Only into my first tank of fuel, but I am not seeing much of any mpg increase. Maybe I shouldn’t have, but whatever.

 

Runnjng the Jr on SW3 POD90. Going on a road trip with it this weekend so I’ll have a few tanks to compare. However, I’m beginning to feel like I’m reaching the limit of the boxed Jr tunes. The options I’m considering are:

 

UDC thingy for my Jr. - May call MADS and pick their brain on this one. Sounds like there are some limitations doing it with a Jr, but will they really limit me in what I want to do? New mild turbo, mild cam, towing 11-12k. SW3 power is plenty for my use, I want to use less fuel. Can I just crank the timing to where it doesn’t rattle or haze and go from there?

 

SSR - seems sweet but kind of involved. Are results better than UDC and Jr?

 

EFI live - everyone raves and it seems like an opportunity since I have one of the few years that allows me to use it. However, I can’t tweak as I feel I need. Not sure how I feel about trusting someone to produce a tune for me that’s perfect.

 

Thoughts?? Found a thread with AH giving a great review of Smarty Jr UDC setup  He moved on, but I may be content if I can get another ~1mpg towing, ~2mpg empty with some timing tweaks.

Started a thread over on Smartyresource specifically about tuning and MPG as well.

you should really probe AH for info on this. UDC pro or maybe a smarty touch could be in order for you. i'm sure something could be worked out to where you are satisfied with the tunes. 

Smarty Jr UDC uses the stock rail pressure map, which is the main reason I went to a S-06 over the Jr.... then came the Touch and UDC Pro. 

 

UDC Pro is similar to EFI Live. IMHO UDC Pro is better and it has more tables to edit. It also means a touch is needed. 

 

Yes it's worth it!!! My power has been the same for all 3 tuners but the S-06 tune was better than the Jr, and the UDC Touch is a HUGE step over the S-06. All UDC tunes are better than the box tunes. 

 

SSR sounds good on paper, it stops there.. DON'T DO IT!

 

 

Since it's not my money... sell the S-JR and the Edge. Get a Touch or MM3(won't have box tunes) and get UDC Pro. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 20187 yr by AH64ID

Edge got sold and turned into the Jr. Selling the Jr will leave about a grand I’d need to fork over on top to get into UDC Pro. I know good tuning isn’t cheap, but that is more than I’m willing to spend right now.

 

Is there efficiency to be gained bumping the timing at light to medium loads with what I can do with a Jr UDC? Bottom line: will I be disappointed if I spend $260 on the UDC cord/dongle for the Jr in pursuit of MPG?

 

Here is the thread I started over on SmartyResource. Brian offered the same advice initially, but said there were still gains to be made even with Jr UDC.

 

https://smartyresource.com/forums/topic/1927-more-mpg-jr-w-udc-or-time-to-upgrade/?tab=comments#comment-10626

Edited March 14, 20187 yr by JPhauler87

There will be some small gains to be made initially but most of my gains were made when I was able to reduce the pilot timing and rail pressure. The OEM pilot table is very advanced and based around the retarded main event. 

 

If you're doing the tuning yourself you may as well give it a go and see if you're happy with what you get. My timing calculator is still floating around the internet and should help you get your timing setup. 

 

Have you downloaded and played with UDC yet? I would use the demo version to see what all it takes before you buy a dongle. 

I will check out the UDC demo, that’s a good idea. I’ve been assuming that the UDC platform is user friendly and that a novice could get decent results with some time and research invested in understanding how it all works. But I should probably see for myself what it actually takes.

 

EDIT: OK... had a chance to read up more. I was under the impression that UDC dumbed things down for the end user, but I’m realizing it is still real custom tuning, just with an easier interface.

 

May still give it a shot myself... but I’m realizing that paying for a tune could be worthwhile. Not as simple as buying the dongle and spending a couple hours clicking around.

Edited March 15, 20187 yr by JPhauler87

Yes it takes some time to get things dialed in. It took me about a year to get to where I was comfortable with tuning and the effects it was having on the truck. 

 

UDC is great, but some of the tables are mislabeled and if you don’t realize that tuning is difficult. 

Got UDC downloaded and played around the last couple hours. Looks like one way or another, I should be able to reference what SW3 looks like once I have the real deal program? I'd rather start there than with a stock tune since I'm pretty happy with it now. Smooth things out, add the timing "cruise hump" for MPG, and mess with timing on the low end timing to dial in how my new turbo spools.

 

Looks like a fun learning experience to dial in a tune for my truck. With a little help, of course Ordering dongle soon, and will probably look to move to an S-06 eventually.

 

 

In loose terms yes, however actual maps don't have the big areas of static timing/pressure in them like the "modified" sample does. Marco once said they are rough guides on how one could tune, but they are not what's in the box tunes. 

 

Here is a link to my timing calculator. 

 

https://smartyresource.com/forums/topic/369-udc-timing-calculator/

 

 

This is the last tune I ran before UDC Pro. My timing is a bit different now because I can modify the pilot too. Pink is the SW5 demo file, and blue is my timing. 

 

I opened your calculator with Google Sheets while I was paying with UDC and I’m not sure if it’s working right through Sheets. I changed duration in a couple spots and it did not change anything in the timing tab. Just for giggles, I pasted in the timing table in the “copy paste” tsb thats in there and it looked typical of what you’ve talked about doing with the cruise hump, spool lull, etc. I have also read that there is not much reason to mess with OEM duration. I need to get excel and open it for real, but since I’m not likely going to mess with duration and I can’t mess with rail timing... seems like that’s about where your calculator is going to leave me. Right? Better than stock, but ~9 degrees in the cruise hump seems low to me.

Changing duration will change stuff in timing, if there is an applicable cell. The duration table has many unused cells, or cells that are blended. If you go to the 140mm3/160mpa cell and change it to 2500 you will see the timing at 100% load change. 

 

9° is a fair amount of timing for a common rail. The delay from commanded injection to actual injection is very small on a CR since the fuel is already pressurized at the injector. There is also between 10-18° of timing on top of that for the pilot injection event, and the pilot means there is also minimal ignition delay once fuel is injected. 

 

If you leave duration where it is the fuel will be the same as SW3 since SW3 uses a stock duration map. I only mess with small parts of the duration table, and depending on the injectors and desired power I will either increase it or decrease it. My truck runs less duration than stock with more power. If you want more overall power than you have now you will need to mess with part of the duration table. 

 

The timing table in the calculator is a very rough starting point. It will likely have a decent about of haze in the mid section, but it does give you the idea. Be sure to set the rail pressure back to stock as that has a big effect on the calculator. 

Got it, thanks. I plan to do as I mentioned smoothing things out and playing with spool and cruise sections first based off the map I get from your calculator and comparing to some of the example tunes in there. I read some more this morning about the calculated splits and the theory/meaning behind that... wasn’t clear reading it last night but I think I got it now. Will continue reading.

 

Is more timing and therefore efficiency possible than what your calc gives knowing I have a cam? I’m sure it will take a little trial and error.

 

For now, I like the idea of being able to pull over and switch back to SW3 if needed because it’s rattling or smoking. Hoping I can adjust in small enough increments to avoid that but stuff happens.

 

I can see myself totally nerding out on this. Probably drive my GF crazy on the laptop in the trailer playing with the tune on trips while everyone is out around the fire

 

So, I’m seeing used SSRs out there pretty cheap. If I only intend to use it as a medium for UDC anyway... does an SSR open more tuning capability over an S06?

Edited March 19, 20187 yr by JPhauler87

Cruise timing wont be effected by the cam too much, but spool timing is. Between my cam/turbo/pistons I am able to run a considerable amount more timing in the 35-55% load range than on trucks without those mods. 

 

An SSR will give you some additional UDC options, but there aren't any box tunes. 

 

I still think you should save for UDC pro and run SW3 until then... you're not looking at a huge mileage gain over SW3 anyhow.