Hey all, need urgent help. It’s been awhile since I’ve posted which means things have been pretty good.. just got home and a few blocks away I saw a little blue smoke. Nothing at idle but saw a good amount of oil blew out the crank case vent, about to check oil level now as oil pressure was lower than normal at idle. I figure it got burned on the exhaust cuz the top valve cover had oil from I’m assuming the fan blowing oil everywhere. Freaking out because I’m supposed to be towing a 10k trailer on Wednesday. Gonna check vacuum lines and make sure none came disconnected and whatnot as well as check oil level. Oil is about to maybe hit 5k mark.

You could do a quick check for engine blow-by using the bouncing oil cap method.  Otherwise, I would just clean up the engine compartment, then start the engine and perform very short drives inspecting the engine compartment frequently for leaks, blow-by, etc.

 

Doesn't sound good.

 

- John

So it wasn’t as much oil as I figured.. oil was full and didn’t smell like diesel. Will check again.

 

Saw a droplet formed on the vacuum pump where that seal will break.. last time I replaced the pump due to that issue but she was constantly dripping a lot at idle. Maybe this is the very beginning and driving it caused more to gush out?  And when I found the last one leaking, it was completely torn/failed possibly? I’m praying that’s the issue and the oil coating came from there. If it’s a completely failed pump, it’ll be tricky to get one in type for towing ugh 

Update, diesel in oil! With this amount to burp out, I’m betting it’s the shaft seal on the VP I replaced 1-2yrs ago. I’m gonna dye the fuel and check. I can get a pump in town. If it’s my injectors then that’s a whole other issue cuz I cannot get spares before I have to tow. And I just sold my slightly lower HP ones a few weeks back

Fuel is entering the crankcase. I'm going to bet the front pump seal gave up. Injectors maybe but rare. Worth checking them out still I would have them pulled and tested.

If the engine idles smoothly and runs normally under load, I don't think the injectors would be the cause. 

 

4 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

I’m betting it’s the shaft seal on the VP I replaced 1-2yrs ago.

 

Just curious - what is your lift pump pressure?

 

- John

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Fuel is entering the crankcase. I'm going to bet the front pump seal gave up. Injectors maybe but rare. Worth checking them out still I would have them pulled and tested.

You sir are correct! Dyed fuel and saw it gushing out with breather off. I replaced the seal after the same thing happened 1-2 years ago. Someone had been in there before as we found silicon remnants in a small hole behind the seal… surfaces were also a bit rough possibly from a previous owner trying to get the seal out. The injectors were set to your I believe 320 bar recommendation and I got them from DAP probably a year ago. Probably 15k or less miles on them.

50 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

If the engine idles smoothly and runs normally under load, I don't think the injectors would be the cause. 

 

 

Just curious - what is your lift pump pressure?

 

- John

7 times out of 10 she idles smooth lol, ipon initial startup is the smoothest but sometimes after driving she gets rough. I chalk it up to the VP potentially along with maybe a not so good IAT sensor which I just bought one today… I read that sensor can cause a slightly rough idle. Never has it been extremely rough.

 

My glowshift gauge reads about 18 PSI. I’m hoping this weekend to get it on a mechanical gauge to verify.. my above reply to Moparman talks about the pump seal surface condition which I believe may be why it failed. Also had red loctite around it upon install and my buddy said it wasn’t coming out again, must’ve blown due to pressure potentially.

 

Also @Mopar1973Man I bought an SO VP44 from oreillys and it’s I believe standard ignition? I’m on my phone currently and if I leave this reply box it’ll erase everything (it happened 2min ago). I’m a bit worried buying the pump here but came across a comment from I believe you saying there’s only 3-4 remans places in the US and most pumps sold on other sites have to potentially come from them…

So, are you saying the seal lip did not fail - the whole seal just got pushed out?

 

- John

Sucks to be right. Sadly I've seen too much in 22 years of working on Cummins diesels. Injectors are typically a very slow gradual climb in oil amounts. Front seal is from the lift pump and the VP44 intermediate pump and could fill a crankcase quickly.

Edited July 21, 2024Jul 21 by Mopar1973Man

15 hours ago, Tractorman said:

So, are you saying the seal lip did not fail - the whole seal just got pushed out?

 

- John

So I haven’t gotten it off yet, the cheap o Reilly gear puller was bending at the nuts lmao. The first seal I believe the lip was damaged, the seal itself did not push out. I’ll report back what I see on this pump in a few hours.

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Sucks to be right. Sadly I've seen too much in 22 years of working on Cummins diesels. Injectors are typically a very slow gradual climb in oil amounts. Front seal is from the lift pump and the VP44 intermediate pump and could fill a crankcase quickly.

Yessir I figured they were a slower climb. I thought something much worse occurred since that seal had been replaced but I noticed my oil pressure being low, which is what happen when the oil got diluted last time.

 

Any opinions on that standard ignition VP44? I’m hoping she performs and lasts a good bit. Couldn’t get one from another store online due to me needing the truck this week

Update,

 

Truck is back on the road! So, this solved obviously the big problem but also my weird sporadic fuel pressure reading ONLY at 1850 sustained rpm, I think the overflow valve was sticking or something

 

BUT, one thing I noticed on my max level daily tune from TJ, no smoke… and I have 12v at the tap ignition on. I know the hotrod pump is an HO with added timing, but I figured I’d still make similar power. I definitely need TJ to probably change my timing but I’m worried the pump isn’t doing what it should since I feel it wasn’t fueling much. Floored it in second and nothing came out.

It takes a health retard to push enough expanding gases through the turbo to spool.  Then you can hop back on advance timing. I'm still 27 degrees at 2 k RPM.

@YeaImDylan, how did the seal fail - leaking around the lip or seal pushed out?

 

Also,  did you check lift pump pressure with a mechanical gauge?  What were the results?

 

I seriously doubt there are any issues with the overflow valve.  The overflow valve is of simple design and very reliable.

 

The VP44 input shaft seal would only be exposed to lift pump pressure.  Any fuel flow passing over the internal vane pump (also referred to as "feed pump") pressure regulating valve is returned directly to the suction side of the feed pump.  The suction side of the feed pump is in common with fuel entering the VP44 from the lift pump.  Those pressures would be equal.  This is the pressure the shaft seal would see. 

 

- John

 

 

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

It takes a health retard to push enough expanding gases through the turbo to spool.  Then you can hop back on advance timing. I'm still 27 degrees at 2 k RPM.

Gotcha. I just find it odd with this now non hotrod pump that I’m not having enough fuel to spool. I believe wire tap is working since I have 12v at the nut on the cover..

2 hours ago, Tractorman said:

@YeaImDylan, how did the seal fail - leaking around the lip or seal pushed out?

 

Also,  did you check lift pump pressure with a mechanical gauge?  What were the results?

 

I seriously doubt there are any issues with the overflow valve.  The overflow valve is of simple design and very reliable.

 

The VP44 input shaft seal would only be exposed to lift pump pressure.  Any fuel flow passing over the internal vane pump (also referred to as "feed pump") pressure regulating valve is returned directly to the suction side of the feed pump.  The suction side of the feed pump is in common with fuel entering the VP44 from the lift pump.  Those pressures would be equal.  This is the pressure the shaft seal would see. 

 

- John

 

 

I believe it leaked out the edge both times. No visible tears tho. The outside wall where the seal buts up had marks in it the first time I replaced the seal and we put loctite around it. I have yet to get a mechanical gauge on there, hoping to this evening tho while I also fix my brake controller.

Simple Hotrod pump gains are partial from timing advancement. Now if you want to SPOOL that turbo up you need a rather deep RETARD. Then if Pop pressure on your injectors are below 310 bar then for every -10 bar is about 1 degree advanced again making it hard to spool.

 

One reason Beast spools easy 320 bar injectors are 1 degree retarded and make up on the Quadzilla tune. SO pump so no mechanical mods to fight. Then running the 200°F thermostat to provide more heat for ignition quality I now don't need turbo most times up to about 55 MPH is all zero boost.

Edited July 24, 2024Jul 24 by Mopar1973Man

On 7/24/2024 at 6:34 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Simple Hotrod pump gains are partial from timing advancement. Now if you want to SPOOL that turbo up you need a rather deep RETARD. Then if Pop pressure on your injectors are below 310 bar then for every -10 bar is about 1 degree advanced again making it hard to spool.

 

One reason Beast spools easy 320 bar injectors are 1 degree retarded and make up on the Quadzilla tune. SO pump so no mechanical mods to fight. Then running the 200°F thermostat to provide more heat for ignition quality I now don't need turbo most times up to about 55 MPH is all zero boost.

That’s crazy you don’t get any boost til 55mph!

 

Thought I’d update you all though.

 

Got my tunes re done for the new pump, it’s weird getting used to not as much low end power like the HO hotrod pump had. Timing was a difference til I got the new tune for the SO.

 

Tow tune worked great, I pulled a 36ft 10k camper on the ball (I don’t wanna do that again lol unless it has the stabilizers) and once I figured out where to have my RPM’s when going up hill, I was pushing 25psi and staying at 55/60mph and EGT’s according to my max tow gauges were at 1050-1100. Sometimes they’d spike up if I didn’t have the momentum going up initially but I’d pull out a bit and they’d go down fast from 1300*. Truck pulled well I thought, most I’ve ever pulled so far. Braking was fine and I did use the controller manually at times, but I have the 6 speed so I’d sit in 5th all the time and if needed drop to 4th on a large downward hill.

On 7/29/2024 at 4:49 PM, YeaImDylan said:

That’s crazy you don’t get any boost til 55mph!

 

As long as I keep my engine load below 20% I'm on super high timing (25° to 27° BTDC @ 65 MPH) and there are no real expanding gases and EGT's are less than 450℉ to provide to the turbo but yes during acceleration yes it will eventually build some boost to move the needle but nothing really more than 5 PSI climbing rolling hills. This is all due to the ability to get high timing with little to zero boost. The head gasket will hold up to the cylinder pressure at 5 PSI (suggested) no problem above that you're playing with fire ring material. Flat ground will drop to zero boost pressure at 55 MPH. Now travel the canyon from New Meadows ID and Council ID there is a canyon road at 55 MPH it's a blast to haul through. 

Edited July 31, 2024Jul 31 by Mopar1973Man