Crank Tone Ring Check and tightening

[eddielee]

Hello y'all

 

I have a 99 5.9l 2wd 5spd man and the crank position sensor code is being thrown.

 

I recently replaced this with an OEM part and after a few months the code is coming back.

From what I understand this issue can be caused by a loose tone ring.

However, I cannot find out the exact placement despite searching multiple times and places.

Is the tone ring in the block and do I have to drop the oil pan to check and tighten it?

 

The only other thing I am finding may be an issue is the ECM itself, if that is the case I will get rid of the truck at this point.

 

Thank you for your assistance and any insight you may have.

Ed

[dripley]

I am pretty sure the tone ring is in the block and how you tighten is out of my realm of knowledge. I am sure some one else knows and will speak up. What makes you think your ECM is bad or going bad?

Edited August 21, 2015 by dripley

[eddielee]

The answer was given to me by another sites member

 

to fully investigate the tone ring you must drop the oil pan.

however, you can use a mirror and or a screwdriver to check for movement and obviously missing teeth.

 

The second part was that the cam sensor being bad can cause an erroneous CEL for crank sensor.

 

Now the question is whether I should try the needle point inspection or replace the cam sensor.

Beings I am running on limited funds I will try and needle point and replace the cam sensor if it looks good.

 

Thank you for the response,

hopefully this will help someone else.

Maybe someone else has further insight as well.

[eddielee]

tone ring Found through google images

[dave110]

It's on the crank but you should be able to see it through the sensor hole.

[Vais01]

tone ring Found through google images

If you believe the tone ring is loose look at your sensor to see if it has been swiped if so. Park the truck immediately and pull the engine out of the frame or lift the engine high enough to remove the oil pan and buy the replacement ring and hardware from Cummins. The screws are tiny and require green Loctite if I remember correctly. I have had to do this once before and I had to remove that particular rod cap and push the piston away to install the ring. It's a time consuming job.

Check your sensor first, then with the starter out of the way get a long skinny flat head in there and see if you can budge the ring or its segment. If it does not move and you still feel it may be loose go through and replace it and the hardware.

[eddielee]

I did get in there and look at it as well as you can through a little hole. No marks on the sensor, nor any movement in the ring that I can tell.

 

Someone else said that it could be the cam sensor causing the CEL for the Crank sensor.

I am questioning this at the moment. Will the cam sensor being bad cause the tach to go dead?

Will the cam or crank sensor cause the truck not to start occasionally?

 

Still contemplating the issue and what to do next.

I drove it for a couple hours yesterday and I had no issues whatsoever, took a ride down the parkway.

Seems to happen when driving in town and not so much when under constant speed.

 

Any ideas what I should actually do at this point? Especially on limited funds?

[Vais01]

Cam and crank sensors are looked at by the ECM along with VP44's internal position. If something is too far out of range that the ECM is programmed for you will get a no start.

[dripley]

did any of these trucks come with both the cam and crank sensor? Mine only has the cam sensor I believe.

[Vais01]

did any of these trucks come with both the cam and crank sensor? Mine only has the cam sensor I believe.

I believe 2001 was the transition year that cam sensor only was used. I'm sure build dates make a difference too. I believe prior to 2001 the engine had both sensors.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Vais01

[eddielee]

It seems that if the tach is dead and I shut it down there will be a nostart. If I wait for tach to come back it starts fine.

As a diagnostic question, will a cam sensor cause a dead tach? It kind of makes sense that it would, however, I would like to make sure before I replace it and it is not the issue.

Testing is difficult on intermittent issues, especially electrical.

[Vais01]

It seems that if the tach is dead and I shut it down there will be a nostart. If I wait for tach to come back it starts fine.

As a diagnostic question, will a cam sensor cause a dead tach? It kind of makes sense that it would, however, I would like to make sure before I replace it and it is not the issue.

Testing is difficult on intermittent issues, especially electrical.

Yes cam sensor will cause a no start condition to occur if it's totally shot but it would throw a CEL. Cycle the key from off to on 3 times leaving it on the last time. The odometer will display the codes related to the problem.

Crank sensor will also cause this problem.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Vais01

[eddielee]

Update:

I just installed a new to me ECM yesterday. Now the code is thrown for Cam Sensor.

I did some diagnostic work this morning and the Cam sensor signal line is not continuous, will repair with new wire.

The 5v line and the ground are showing low resistance in the area of .001-Ohms.

I hope this is the end of the issues.