Finally install my NEW Mopar1973Man High Idle Kit

[gh0stman]

Looks cool to bad I don't have high idle on my truck.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, gh0stman said:

Looks cool to bad I don't have high idle on my truck.

You could get the high idle feature either by going to a dealer and have them enable it. Or... Barrow a Smarty programmer.

[gh0stman]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

You could get the high idle feature either by going to a dealer and have them enable it. Or... Barrow a Smarty programmer.

Ill have to feel around and see if they would charge me. Wish I had a friend close that would let me borrow a smarty. But in the south its not as blistering cold to really use the high idle feature. Not as much as the rest of the folks that are currently being buried.

[Mopar1973Man]

12 minutes ago, gh0stman said:

Ill have to feel around and see if they would charge me. Wish I had a friend close that would let me borrow a smarty. But in the south its not as blistering cold to really use the high idle feature. Not as much as the rest of the folks that are currently being buried.

Ok... Then...

How about in the blazing heat you able to kick 6 cylinder high idle to help cool down the cab faster with A/C?

How about a friend has a dead battery. You can enable 6 cylinder mode and kick the RPM's up to make jump starting easier.

Still you can use MPG mode any time you wish. It still gives a mild boost in MPG during the warm up stag.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Mopar1973Man

[gh0stman]

Dangit...You got me calling them to set it up now

15 minutes ago, gh0stman said:

Dangit...You got me calling them to set it up now

Scratch that idea...They will only do it for $110.

[leathermaneod]

I have a few questions about the switch. I am already sold and will order one as soon as they are in stock again by the way. Isn't there a danger of overheating in 6 cyl high idle mode since the temp gauge is disabled? Also, how hard is it to change modes with the truck running? That seems like something you would want to do pretty often if I am understanding things right. For example, you go to a job site in 0° weather and want high idle when you get there, but the instructions page says you don't recommend it. What happens if you do it too slow and the code is trigger? Can you turn the MPG fooler on and off with the truck running? Also, what happens to the other three cylinders in 3 cyl mode? Do they not receive fuel? 

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Isn't there a danger of overheating in 6 cyl high idle mode since the temp gauge is disabled?

We tested this on several different truck back with Ed Grafton. 500-700 HP trucks and twin turbos. No issues it just hovers at normal operating temperature.

 

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Also, how hard is it to change modes with the truck running?

Just twist the knob to what you wish to use. The only limitation is the last set high idle mode will continue to be remembered. So for example if you set 3 cylinder high idle for warm up. Even if you select 6 cylinder later it will resume 3 cylinder. The way of resetting is to shut the truck down for 5-10 second and start back up. So basically rebooting the ECM empty.  As for OFF, MPG and 6 CYL modes you can select them any time you wish. Like my truck I just leave MPG set.

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

What happens if you do it too slow and the code is trigger?

Yes. If you roll the knob to slow it will trigger errors. Even the switch I've got has a really crisp notch to each setting. so I've not had that problem with this switch yet.

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Can you turn the MPG fooler on and off with the truck running?

Yes. Sitting and idling there will be no change. Now if you change it while driving you'll hear a timing shift. In OFF there should be a cold timing rattle (advanced) then when you switch while driving should hear it fade out (retard). For some reason Chrysler thought we needed per steep timing curve for morning warm up. Funny the P7100 doesn't have any dynamic timing at all.

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Also, what happens to the other three cylinders in 3 cyl mode? Do they not receive fuel? 

3CYL mode is basically every other cylinder firing.

FIRING ORDER: 1 5 3 6 2 4

So 1,2 and 3 are dead cylinders with out fuel and just pumping air. 4,5 and 6 are firing working against the drag of 1,2,and 3 so more fuel is used and hotter pyrometer is typically noted. Like average is about 600*F pyrometer without exhaust brake. With a exhaust brake it can reach about 800-900*F easy. Be aware large injectors can drive this even higher! So like my setup up with mere +50 HP injectors I can go from subzero coolant temp to 175*F in about 10 minutes on average.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Mopar1973Man

[leathermaneod]

Sweet! Thanks for explaining all that! I assume from what you said that if your are in 6 cyl high idle and want to check the temp you could just switch to mpg to look at the temp gauge, then switch back? Also though of another question. Do you have any idea how a smarty with timing adjustments acts with the advanced timing at startup? And also do you have any idea how it would act with the mpg mode? What I mean is how does the ecm know which to follow? Or does it still advance even further when cold?

[Me78569]

Mike,

 

another thing to note about the high idle function being remembered,  it will remember the high idle position it was set to, but it will disable itself when coolant temp has been reached. 

 

Easiest way to think about it is, the switch turns the function on, but the only thing that can turn the function off is coolant temp coming up to what the ECM sees as warm. or shutting off the truck for 30 seconds.  

 

Keep in mind high idle is disabled if you hit the brakes, tps, mph is above 0 gear is seleted, so you can't reallly have it just go into high idle until you are truly at idle.

 

 

Leathermaneod, there is 1 switch for sale currently.

2 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Sweet! Thanks for explaining all that! I assume from what you said that if your are in 6 cyl high idle and want to check the temp you could just switch to mpg to look at the temp gauge, then switch back?

Yes

Also though of another question. Do you have any idea how a smarty with timing adjustments acts with the advanced timing at startup? And also do you have any idea how it would act with the mpg mode? What I mean is how does the ecm know which to follow? Or does it still advance even further when cold?

The high idle switch just fools the ecm into thinking it is warm outside.  The smartys tune has a timing map for IAT values in warm weather, so there is no real issue.  The switch itself does not adjust timing, just change the input value on the sensor to make the ecm adjust timing itself.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Me78569

[leathermaneod]

Thanks for the info ME78569, and for letting me know about that switch! I just bought it :-)

[Mopar1973Man]

7 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Keep in mind high idle is disabled if you hit the brakes, tps, mph is above 0 gear is seleted, so you can't reallly have it just go into high idle until you are truly at idle.

I just had a phone call last night with a High idle issue. The owner couldn't enable high idle on a cold start but could after warm up. What was happening he's got a Stock APPS sensor and the IVS is not in IDLE position at start up so the idle appears normal. But the IVS is in throttling mode so high idle won't engage. So he told me if he revs it 2-3 times and then set the high idle it engages. Sure sign the APPS sensor is failing on the IVS side of thing.

[leathermaneod]

I'm confused, what is the IVS? And I have a stock APPS as well does that mean it won't work for me? How did he resolve the issue? I was going to replace my APPS with one from Geno's a while ago because I got a momentary dead peadal and a P0121 code while on a long trip from NY to PA. I cleared the code and have had no issues since so I sent the new APPS back to save the money.

[Mopar1973Man]

10 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

I'm confused, what is the IVS?

Idle Validation switch. Pins 6, 2 and 1... (Just hover on the dotted underline stuff and it shows its real names)

10 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

And I have a stock APPS as well does that mean it won't work for me?

All APPS sensors have it. Even Timbo's. It just the IVS tells the ECM if your truly idling or throttling.

10 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

How did he resolve the issue?

No issue. Just enjoy your high idle kit.

10 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

I was going to replace my APPS with one from Geno's a while ago because I got a momentary dead peadal and a P0121 code while on a long trip from NY to PA. I cleared the code and have had no issues since so I sent the new APPS back to save the money.

Well there might be an issue with your APPS in the future if the code returns.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

Idle Verify Switch.  

 

The APPS sensor is complex in how it works, not only does it use a.5V-4.5V range to give us 0-100% throttle, but if at idle position it will trigger the IVS and the truck knows it is at idle.  that is why the apps sensor is a 6 pin connection.  

 

The switch may or may not work with a bad apps.  Hard to know until you try, but I am guessing it will work fine.  

Edited December 9, 2015 by Me78569

[Mopar1973Man]

Stock OE APPS uses rheostat voltage to trigger each switch.

So when the voltage rises above the tag voltage as seen 0.519 volts the the throttling IVS is grounded. Below that voltage the idling IVS switch is grounded.

So if you upgrade to the Timbo's APPS this all goes away because its a mechanical switch and not a circuit like seen above.

[leathermaneod]

Wow that's crazy how complicated that all is. Pretty cool how Timbo figured out how to do it mechanically. Thank you both for taking the time to explain all this! Greatly appreciate it!! Can't wait to get the switch and get installed!

[leathermaneod]

Ok so I know we cover the operation of the high idle switch in depth yesterday but I came up with one more question that I don't think we covered. If I start my truck in 3 cyl mode, let it warm up, then I want to switch to mpg mode for the drive to work. Can I do that without shutting off the truck? I know it will resume 3 cyl when I get there, if coolant temp drops below 170°, but will mpg mode work just by turning the switch?

[Mopar1973Man]

Yes you can just switch over to MPG mode. Actually it needs to drop below 140*F to restart the last set mode.

 

[leathermaneod]

Great thanks again!