a/c airconditioning compressor - not engaging - warm air

[white01]

how far are you from ISX??do you have a dealer or a local napa,autozone,checker schucks kragen close by you that they could give you some pointers...that might help you out. some people learn better with hands on that reading and doing it.:thumbup2:all the luck to you.

[SASQCH]

Haha michael - no sorry - my bad I meant - I can't even jump an a/c compressor with all the help here from the guys :banghead: and now you send me a wiring diagram I don't even know how to 'partly' read it Hence the 'chinese' reference. A little frustrated - so hope thats not comming across - as I know this stuff is grade 2 for you guys :| Heck - It took me 2 hours before I started the thread to work out where the a/c compressor was - I thought the compressor was the accumulator/dryer : ) I managed to work that one out eventually (couldn't find it in 2001 service manuals or chiltons - I guess they considered too basic also) by looking at pics on ebay of what an dodge ram a/c compressor looked like - then I realized it wasn't the accumulator. anyway - am sure somewhere I will work it out ..............

JOHNFAK, I was just thinking that it might be helpful to you to find some cummins 2nd gen owners near you to gain some hands on general knowledge from them. I see that you list St Louis as your location, thought you might want to want to post on the MO chapter of the cummins forum to make some local contacts. Here is the url: http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/missouri/ Just a thought. Jim

[JOHNFAK]

Hey - yeah so far I haven't hit too many issues - with the guys here and some people I have bumped into helped me manage to do a few things.

Little bit stumped on this one ...................

I have some people I can ask - else I might just take 12V +ve and 12V -ve and see if I can kick the compressor on from the switch I was playing with before. Don't know if this works - wild and free said no and he knows his stuff but some other people said yes - so that kinda confuses also.

anyway -> will keep posted - there sure isn't much detail info on a/c for rams out on any forums - so might put something together at end for others.

worst case its just A/C and summers almost here right - what could be wrong with that

---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------

JOHNFAK,

I was just thinking that it might be helpful to you to find some cummins 2nd gen owners near you to gain some hands on general knowledge from them.

I see that you list St Louis as your location, thought you might want to want to post on the MO chapter of the cummins forum to make some local contacts.

Here is the url:

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/missouri/

Just a thought.

Jim

No thats a great thought - funnily enough the other guy I was talking about is a young guy on that forum that showed me the power from the edge juice prior to me buying one (as I had tried others without tapping the Vp44 and wasn't impressed) .......... he's pretty clued on so I PM'd him about me paying him to help give me some basic 101's and also help complete some of the things I wanna do and 'think' I can do but have never done before - eg change brake rotors/pads

he seemed kinda keen - so will see what works out - thx jim

[JOHNFAK]

ok.So I basically ended up taking it in to local midas where I dod my state inspection. Ended up costing me $450 with the diagnostics, de-vacuumed and regased - then had to replace high pressure line and regas the following day. Anyway - I got the guy to show me everything and asked a bunch of questins. So I am gonna update this thread in case anyone else got stuck on something similar. I think MOST of what I am saying below is correct - but people will jump in where its wrong.Starting at front is the condensor sitting in front of radiator/fan etc. You can see the silver High presssure line comming into it (this was replaced).Under the serperntine belt, kinda lower and further forward than the oil filter is the actual compressor.Way at the back of the firewall between the PCM and the tranmission dipstick is the accumulator/dryer - it has a green low pressure switch on it.

[JOHNFAK]

The first thing I would do is check the fuses. There is a single 10amp fuse and a fuse relay. You can1) DO a visual inspection.2) Use a multimeter like a powerprobe to see if fuse is valid and has correct power.3) Swicth out the relay with another if you thin its suspect.Here are the fuses and locations. My relay was fine.My 10Amp in bottom left corner (red 10amp fuse) was blown.

[JOHNFAK]

So if fuses are ok - you can check for 12V supply comming into the LOW PRESSURE swich (green) on top of accumulator/dryer using multimeterI had 12V.If fuses are ok and you have 12V you can try closing the circuit on the harness - using a paperclip of appropriately guaged wire. This will often then close the circuit and the compressor will kick in -> you can then try filling via the LP port with R1234a refrigerant. (PIC 1)MINE DID NOT KICK IN. This is where I got stuck as everyone kept saying 'jump' the compressor. I had NO idea. It is really quite simple - but no-one explained it to me - I guess I asked it wrong.See the wire with the note. USE A POWERPROBE - they are like $60 new ..... or borrow one ..... all you have to do is supply 12V (via the probe) by sticking a long attachment from the probe onto the wire sheath (touch firmly) and press the btton to get the 12V supply. (PIC 2)THIS RESULTED IN CLUTCH ENGAGING. So Compressor is ok I thought it would be as the clutch could be spun by hand.

[JOHNFAK]

Here's the bit that confused me - how to get down in there with disconnecting everything to jump the wire - and which wire.

Use a powerprobe - its like $60 or free from friend and has an extension that easily lets you get to the sheathed wire at front and you just press against it and hit the button to supply 12V - CLutch Kicks in - I suspected it would as it spins freely by hand.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Probe-Case-Acces-PWP-PP219FTC/dp/B000UMEM2K

---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

ok

so after all this (checking fuses and replacing, trying to jump compressor by paperclip on accumulator wiring harness) and finally jumping the a/c via poweprobe we vacummed out all the air/gas as the guys machine was saying it was mainly air. We then regassed it - and it looked like a leak in the HP shraeder valve. The compressor however was now engaging properly when A/C switch on in CAB ..... and we had cold air.

So we had to DEGAS ...... and then replace the HP ac line from firewall through back of batery and into the condensor at the front.

Once done - all OK - everything back to normal !!

[JOHNFAK]

I didn't know where to jump.Hopefully the pics above show WHERE and HOW to jump.Here is a pic of the compressor from underneath. The blue switch for the wiring harness is the HP switch. Don"t touch/jump this.:banghead:You will see a clip/switch. After trying to jump the Low Pressure switch with papaerclip - I then tried to jump the harness here. DON"T DO THS.I think this is what shorted my 10A red fuse for the a/c clutch.Anyway - thats about it - I have a bunhc of doco he printed out for me with pressure specs etc ......... I am not sure if there was a cheaper way to do it as we had to devacuum and fill via the HP port. I will try to upload.Hope this helps someone in future.John

[Wild and Free]

Glad you figured out what I was trying to teach you, It is easier to understand when you get walked through it I guess. Good to hear you are cool again....

[JOHNFAK]

Glad you figured out what I was trying to teach you, It is easier to understand when you get walked through it I guess. Good to hear you are cool again....

Yeah - I was really stumped at what was what at first as well as what to 'jump' to get compressor going ...................... but basically everything was exactly as you said Wish I knew about the powerprobes before hand - I was wondering if I was going to have to take the whole radiator and lines out to get to the wires and then since they are attached to something - if I had to cut into them - thats what made me think the HP harness is what every1 was talking about - as its pretty easy to get to. Anyway - thx again as always

[JOHNFAK]

So ------ still have warm air after $1000k. Nice. I had the company vacuum everything else out and regass with with a DIE pack. I need to check 1) AC clutch is cycling on ( I believe it is as I can hear it - but will phsyically check)2) Check pressure from low pressure port3) Check for leaks around the compressor. Currently in all honestly it feels like its almost blowing hot air - not cold - if I turn down the windows it feels 30 degrees cooler (I know I am moving) .............. If no obvious leaks and pressure ok ?? What next ................. leaning to "leak fix" as I CAN"T spend any more monmey on this - its riducolous - and now being in AZ I can't take back to midas in MO to continue working it.

[ISX]

You should be able to see green crap around the compressor if it is leaking since I cleaned it really good. Try looking at that first.

[JOHNFAK]

You should be able to see green crap around the compressor if it is leaking since I cleaned it really good. Try looking at that first.

Yeha I do need to check it........... but leak was so small all the freon must not have leaked yet (I assume) So then why HOT air ?? Will look tonight.

[ISX]

To be sure that thing is on, look at it and the clutch should be spinning on it. Did you ever refill it or anything? It worked for a few days here so how long did it go before it stopped working?

[JOHNFAK]

To be sure that thing is on, look at it and the clutch should be spinning on it. Did you ever refill it or anything? It worked for a few days here so how long did it go before it stopped working?

I had it degassed/vacuumed and then regassed with freon to get all the air out. Worked about 1 day. Previously it worked for liek 2 months - but gradually got warmer. I'll check a couple things and repost. Kinda thinking if nothing obvious may try a noleak - but hate to do it. What actually dictates delivering the cold air flow via the controller on dash. ?

[JOHNFAK]

Hey guysWell I checked the clutch today and sure enough not spinning/cycling. So I checked the low side pressure - around 20psi - so I gassed her up a little with what freon I had left and sure enough clutch came back on.I CANNOT find a leak. I rubbed everything down with a towel - both high and low lines and check inside the cab. The only green dye I found was a little on the low pressure port itself - but I cleaned it up and allowed it to cycle a few mins and didn't see any die. I have thrown $1k at this an now have WARM air. So I am getting to the point I think I either have to start replacing more parts - which I don't want to do ($$) or put some 'stop leak' in it. I hate to do that but not sure.Anyone have any experience with stop leak freon ??? alsoI notice the condensor/drier is warm - not cold - I don't know if thats due to system completely out of freon or not ?? It has enough pressure to cycle the clutch now and STILL warm - but no idea how much freon there is in there.thx

[ISX]

I think Mike had this same problem with not being able to find it. I really didn't see anywhere that the compressor was leaking when I took it apart to be honest. Mike changed all of his o-rings in all of the connectors and I *think* it somehow fixed itself.

[JOHNFAK]

Mike - how many orings and how much ? Problem with that is I would need to vacuum it back down and regas it - another $70 or whateverSo 2 q's; 1) Anyone got any experience with the stopleak freon ?2) My clutch is cycling - but I still get warm air - I assume there would be enough in their to allow the low port voltage to detect the pressure and switch on the clutch - and I would then get cold air - so why is it warm ? Should I just buy a $20 kit and fill it up again and see if I can detect the leak ??

[jgendr]

My 2 cent's worth is DON"T USE THE STUFF!!!! if it wasn't ment to be in there don't put it in there. I had a 96 S10 the the pump acted just like your saying and it was the casing on the pump that was leaking the freon. I know it sounds expensive but your gonna need a pump no 2 ways about it. now you can do all the work yourself which will save you a ton on service charges. and you can do the whole thing if you can find a vacuum pump. In come Harbor freight. They have Cheap guage set for the new freon set up and even have a vacuum pump for like $65 buck to vacuum your system down if need be. JG

[JOHNFAK]

My 2 cent's worth is DON"T USE THE STUFF!!!! if it wasn't ment to be in there don't put it in there.

Yeah - I really don't want to - but only thing I haven't replaced is compressor (which is working) and the low pressure line and the condersor/dryer.

I had a 96 S10 the the pump acted just like your saying and it was the casing on the pump that was leaking the freon. I know it sounds expensive but your gonna need a pump no 2 ways about it. now you can do all the work yourself which will save you a ton on service charges. and you can do the whole thing if you can find a vacuum pump. In come Harbor freight. They have Cheap guage set for the new freon set up and even have a vacuum pump for like $65 buck to vacuum your system down if need be. JG

Yeha -I was just looking at harbourfreight and ebay. Will also check out the auto stores and wally world. Is the harbour pump and guages ok - I only saw the $100 pump and the $60 gauges at HF. Was this combo at ebay .... http://cgi.ebay.com/New-FJC-A-C-Vacuum-Pump-R134-Manifold-Gauge-Set-KIT6-/270612484234?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01c2d08a