which combo?....

[2500ctd]

Guys, need some input, which will help me decide which way to go from here. Try to follow....

I have an 01 Ram that is sittng until I fix the front end. Body damage and front frame rail is tweaked, deciding on how to fix that still...

Anyways, Truck has a HTT 62/65/12, This turbo was destined to be a top turbo for this truck. 

I got an 05 Ram, since I wrecked the 01...Currently just a Smarty on it. I'm getting twins.

 

Most bang for my buck:

05:   I say take the 62/65/12 from my 01 and install it on a 2nd gen exhaust manifold, over something like a s475, or could I go to an S480? Limiting thing on the 05, is I dont want to have to run dual CP3's. How far can a twin with a 62 top take me? If possible Say maybe break into the 700hp range?

IIRC the 62/65/12 should be wasted, if so, and if used in a set of twins, is that gate enough flow? Reason being, I'm doing a 2nd gen manifold swap as well as a gated manifold.

Or down the road...buy a 2nd gen T4 gated manifold, get an S480 to run with the stocker, then later on switch to a S464/S480. (more of a dream) 

 

01:  the 62 was initally for the truck with a s475 under it. I've read stock SO VP's usually run outta fuel with a twin setup like that. However, I now have an 05 HE351 turbo that I could run over an S475. Been outta the 2nd gen realm, what numbers do they get out of an he351/s475 on a VP truck?

[TFaoro]

2 hours ago, 2500ctd said:

Guys, need some input, which will help me decide which way to go from here. Try to follow....

I have an 01 Ram that is sittng until I fix the front end. Body damage and front frame rail is tweaked, deciding on how to fix that still...

Anyways, Truck has a HTT 62/65/12, This turbo was destined to be a top turbo for this truck. 

I got an 05 Ram, since I wrecked the 01...Currently just a Smarty on it. I'm getting twins.

 

Most bang for my buck:

05:   I say take the 62/65/12 from my 01 and install it on a 2nd gen exhaust manifold, over something like a s475, or could I go to an S480? Limiting thing on the 05, is I dont want to have to run dual CP3's. How far can a twin with a 62 top take me? If possible Say maybe break into the 700hp range?

IIRC the 62/65/12 should be wasted, if so, and if used in a set of twins, is that gate enough flow? Reason being, I'm doing a 2nd gen manifold swap as well as a gated manifold.

Or down the road...buy a 2nd gen T4 gated manifold, get an S480 to run with the stocker, then later on switch to a S464/S480. (more of a dream) 

 

01:  the 62 was initally for the truck with a s475 under it. I've read stock SO VP's usually run outta fuel with a twin setup like that. However, I now have an 05 HE351 turbo that I could run over an S475. Been outta the 2nd gen realm, what numbers do they get out of an he351/s475 on a VP truck?

For the 05 you need to set a power goal and stick with it. 

CP3 wise you can run a single huge cp3 and get tons of fuel out of it. Exergy even makes a 14mm pump.... 

I would suggest getting the turbo(s) you want for your power goal from the beginning instead of putting it together and changing it later. You'll have to get tuning and other things changed as you change hard parts. Setting your wanted HP is the big thing here. 

 

For the 01, SO pumps usually run out of fuel in the 650hp range + - 50hp depending on the health of the pump. The 62 you have on it now compounded with an s475 is a nice street setup that should burn the fuel a VP can supply. 

[2500ctd]

How much horse can a single CP3 produce? I've read about running a 464 in a twin setup. Mainly being its a s400 frame. 

 

My personal limit is I dont want to have to run a hotrod VP or dual CP3s. Being realistic, I shouldnt have to in order to have enough power and still be a usable truck. IMO

 

How do the S480's run in a twin setup? Too laggy for towing? On the '05. What is a decent twin setup? From reading, I think 600-650 hp seems streetable in a CR. I think a VP would be a little more rowdy at 650hp.

 

Still seems the wild card is the 05. I'll keep my current plan for the 01. Only thing is the turbo is sittng there staring at me, and it could be awhile before I get to the 01.

[AH64ID]

What is your power goal? Or just what you can make?

[2500ctd]

power goal...depends on what I can make. I do need to be able to tow, but being this is a manual, I have read that helps in spooling bigger turbos compared to an auto. That being said I'm leaning towards more performance.

 

On a VP I read the 62/475 combo is close to not being able to tow heavy.

For a CR that combo isn't a problem, supposedly.

Heavy for me is 12-15K. Not often but when the need arises I do need the capability.

 

If I was going to put a number out...600. From similar combos, my 01 was around 400hp. It was fun...at first. You know how that goes...not enough.

[AH64ID]

I was under the impression a manual spooled slightly slower, but it shouldn't matter much. 

 

600 is too much for a tow tune. 400-450 is a good tow tune in terms of the cooling and oiling system of the ISB, but that doesn't mean you can't have 2 tunes. 

 

I'd run it with the S475 and get some 100-150hp injectors and a custom tune. HP or UDC Pro is what I would look at. 

[2500ctd]

7 hours ago, AH64ID said:

I was under the impression a manual spooled slightly slower, but it shouldn't matter much. 

 

600 is too much for a tow tune. 400-450 is a good tow tune in terms of the cooling and oiling system of the ISB, but that doesn't mean you can't have 2 tunes. 

 

I'd run it with the S475 and get some 100-150hp injectors and a custom tune. HP or UDC Pro is what I would look at. 

 

 

Doing some more reading. A single cp3 is good for my planned hp. As well as a stocker/475 is more then enough.  Not gonna tow at 600. Well, maybe I'll try it once.  ? 

I have the smarty touch now and again more reading hp tuners? Is pretty good.  Didn't think efi live worked on early cr's. 

On the 475 I'm reading to go for the 83/1.10 or the 92 wheel.  Which do you think will be better.  Not going for dyno numbers but more fun on the street. 600-650 should be a riot. 

[Wild and Free]

On my 02 with auto and 3.54 gears I had an Edge Comp hot unlocked HRVP44 BD 155 injectors and an II silver 62 dynoed @ 560 hp and it was a riot on the street. No need to be any higher I had limited slip and could easily get sideways on the highway even from 60+ mph romps. I towed heavy and daily drove it at that level for over 100K miles did a few drag races and Power pulled it a lot. When I sold it at 150K it still had the OEM head gasket and head bolts in it, she was a virgin yet gated @ 42 psi.

You can see a video of it in action in my signature below.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Wild and Free

[AH64ID]

Since you have a touch UDC Pro is the way to go. 

[2500ctd]

I will look into the UDC more. Didn't before since the box tunes worked enough for me.  

More reading, I'm going with the stocker over a s475.  However I'm going to spring for the 92mm w/ 1.10 a/r. Don't think I need the race cover. However, added costs will be a 2nd gen manny. I loved the way my 2nd gen sounded. Vs the add a turbo 3rd gen kits. Hopefully in about a month I'll be ordering the turbo. Then it's gathering parts.  I'll fab the piping as that seems to be the spendy bits.  

 

Weather getting warmer, playing on the on ramps, highest I hit was 1430ish with 33-34psi with a haze during the day.  I think I need more air. Smarty is on sw3 as the clutch is starting to slip. I know. I want the twins first then the clutch.  Lol. That way the twins will feel even faster after I do the clutch. ??   

[AH64ID]

That's warm for SW3. What Revo settings are you using? What about the wastegate?

 

 

[2500ctd]

Oops.  I'm on #5. I normally run on 3

boost hasn't gone up from 3 to 5. However isn't 35psi. Actually outside the efficiency of the 351? 

 

 

[AH64ID]

Timing on 1 is stock and that's why you are so hot. 

 

Throw some timing at it. Timing is the #1 reason to run a tune on these motors, IMHO. 

 

The HE351 is good to 35-37 psi but the turbine is losing efficiency at that airflow. 

[2500ctd]

For the 03-07 #1 is the greatest timing. I had to double check as it's the lowest timing on VP trucks. I turned down the timing on my 01 when I towed heavy.  Didn't realize I was running the most timing on the 05 after all. Lol.

 

 

[AH64ID]

Interesting. That goes to show how long it's been since I did anything besides UDC and UDC Pro. 1 used to be stock. 

 

Id be rather careful with 1400° EGTs on advanced timing. I don't like to see more than 1300° momentary. 

[2500ctd]

I bumped 1400 towing this weekend. Trailer…around 6K.  I backed the timing down to #2. Not sure how it affected the temps as I don't have anything to compare it too.  Also back in my VP days, it was not good to tow heavy with a smarty program that had added timing. 

On the CR's is advanced timing during towing just as bad or are the cr's more tolerable of timing vs the vp trucks?

 

i really think I need more air.  Max boost so far was 36lbs.  The 351 has to be out of its efficiency range at those levels. On my 01, higher revs lowered the egts. Not so much in the 05. There is a window where higher revs did lower temps but past that they didn't lower. 

The effects of the small 351 exh housing. Another nod for twins. 

[AH64ID]

CR's love timing. The stock timing profile is very retarded due to the emissions requirements. 

 

36 is fine for the 351 compressor wheel... maybe not so much on the turbine housing :-) 

 

UDC Pro lets you increase boost and use the wastegate to help control drive pressure. 

[2500ctd]

Been playing with the smarty. Rail pressure on wild. Most timing as well. Tq-2. Spools way faster. Less smoke as well.  

Is rail pressure still within safe limits on wild?  Most so far has been 25K.  

 

I ordered my turbo.  S475 92/1.10. 

Next part will be a gated 2nd gen manifold.  Unless a gated one is not needed?   

[2500ctd]

What combo of twins matches the limits of a stock cp3?