Injectors Only. Anything Else Needed?

[Ben]

I am hopefully putting in DAP 7x.0085 Sacs this week. 

 

Truck is stock performance wise. No electronics yet. Will I need anything else along with this? ie boost fooler, elbow?

 

I have never gone the injector first route before but this vehicle has given me a decent $$ hit so I am holding off on electronics. 

 

I know the HO pump responds better to injectors than electronics so I figure I should at least get a nice little bump. 

 

Worst case Ontario I have new injectors. 

[Mopar1973Man]

59 minutes ago, Ben said:

Truck is stock performance wise. No electronics yet. Will I need anything else along with this? ie boost fooler, elbow?

 

Yes. You'll need both. Typically we all use a tuner to take care of boost fooling and fueling control.This provides the boost elbow and the boost fooler. Then on top of that as injectors get bigger you need to be able to set the timing correctly to keep the smoke down. 

 

59 minutes ago, Ben said:

I have never gone the injector first route before but this vehicle has given me a decent $$ hit so I am holding off on electronics.

 

You are going to need the electronics. If you run the injectors you going to find you hit 18-19 PSI and it falls on its face. Boost fooler is needed. Then the fuel map on the ECM is going to be to aggressive and be smoky. Like I said before with bigger nozzles you going to need to add some more timing that stock which is rather on the retarded side. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Ben]

28 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Yes. You'll need both. Typically we all use a tuner to take care of boost fooling and fueling control.This provides the boost elbow and the boost fooler. Then on top of that as injectors get bigger you need to be able to set the timing correctly to keep the smoke down. 

 

 

You are going to need the electronics. If you run the injectors you going to find you hit 18-19 PSI and it falls on its face. Boost fooler is needed. Then the fuel map on the ECM is going to be to aggressive and be smoky. Like I said before with bigger nozzles you going to need to add some more timing that stock which is rather on the retarded side. 

 

Thanks!

 

Both of those are available so I will throw them on for now. 

 

I was worried about the truck going into an overboost situation and hamstringing me. Wasn't sure if just injectors would do this or not. 

 

I could drive a smarty/150's, dragon fire/smarty/6x13's, smoke free so I am not worried. 

 

Per the CTS monitor ( which I had originally bought for my Eco Diesel) i am hitting 22lbs now. It is rare but it does it. 

 

Real gauges go in along with the injectors. So I will really know then. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Ben

[Mopar1973Man]

4 minutes ago, Ben said:

Wasn't sure if just injectors would do this or not. 

 

Stock Injectors can do this. Just install a boost elbow and it will hit the ECM limits. It won't trip a light per say or error codes but it will start defuelling at 18-19 PSI if you happen to make it past 25 PSI then the P0234 code will be set. With my current setup of DAP (7 x 0.0085) injectors, HX35/40 hybrid turbo, and the Quadzilla Adrenaline I'm snapping 45 PSI of boost then settling at about 40 PSI at a full run. 

[Ben]

Thanks Mike. 

 

Thats what I needed to know.

[Ben]

Sticks showed up today. So I'll chime in tomorrow about how I feel with injectors only, boost fooler, and elbow. It's a 3hr ride home. 

 

DAP sent an Adrenaline V2 brochure along with the order.  I did not need that. I swear Jacob put 2 and 2 together.

 

 

ETA - Doesn't the ETH motor have additional timing already vs the ETC? Wonder if this will help. Thinking out loud. 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Ben

[trreed]

Yes the ETH has additional timing built into the VP itself.  Something like 2*, which is part of the reason the HO motors like injectors over programmers.

Edited April 24, 2018 by trreed

[Ben]

24 minutes ago, trreed said:

Yes the ETH has additional timing built into the VP itself.  Something like 2*, which is part of the reason the HO motors like injectors over programmers.

 

Thanks!

[Ben]

Injectors and gauges are in. Kinda of interesting, puzzling, and a little disappointing results. for whole day. 

 

I goofed on the boost fooler when rooting through their parts last time. I was unaware that there are 3 style map sensors. Triangle, oval, and flat. 

 

I saw one for the 01 and thought bingo. We are good. Nope. 2002 has a flat with a push lock. New to me I thought it was an oval like 01.

 

No sense putting in boost elbow with no fooler. Oh well. I brought the elbow home and ordered up a fooler. 

 

Injectors went in fine, only 2 exhaust valves needed adjusted. 

 

Tapped 2 holes in exhaust manifold for 2 pyros. One for Isspro and one for when I get a Quadzilla. Got all of the senders put in and ready to be wired. 

 

Stopped for lunch. 

 

Back at it. Got the A Pillar mount fitted. Ran all of wiring, gauges wired in properly, installed, and final wiring to power,dimmer, and ground. 

 

The Glow shift A pillar mount that was in the kit leaves some to be desired. The mounting of it is a touch crude and there is a big gap on the right. You can see some of the wiring through the windshield. 

 

The Fass is only reading 14lbs and goes no lower than 13. I'm almost positive that was reading 18 lbs on a manual gauge when installed 2 weeks ago. I was running out of time to deal with that. As long as it doesn't budge I am good for now. 

 

Now the interesting. The truck really responded nice to the injectors. Mechanic and I went for a test ride at the end. Hits 33 pounds of boost with no CEL's. Did that a few times and same results. Boost gauge and CTS are reading the same. 

 

Soooo, wastegate is most like stuck shut.  No need for boost fooler or elbow at this point. Not needed. I still will have them but we will see. 

 

And there is no real noticeable smoke when accelerating or getting on it. . A puff at start up. That's it. 

 

Kind of had the mechanic and the shop owner scratching their heads. 

 

Power feels good. The nice little bump I was looking for and according to the overhead and CTS mileage went up. The final judgement for that will be hand calced but there is an improvement. 

 

I leave next Friday for my parents in KY so that will be a nice shakedown for the truck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

On 4/24/2018 at 1:41 PM, trreed said:

Yes the ETH has additional timing built into the VP itself.  Something like 2*, which is part of the reason the HO motors like injectors over programmers.

 

Not a problem you can shave 2 degrees off your tune if you have a Quadzilla. 

[Ben]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:29 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Yes. You'll need both. Typically we all use a tuner to take care of boost fooling and fueling control.This provides the boost elbow and the boost fooler. Then on top of that as injectors get bigger you need to be able to set the timing correctly to keep the smoke down. 

 

 

You are going to need the electronics. If you run the injectors you going to find you hit 18-19 PSI and it falls on its face. Boost fooler is needed. Then the fuel map on the ECM is going to be to aggressive and be smoky. Like I said before with bigger nozzles you going to need to add some more timing that stock which is rather on the retarded side. 

 

On 4/25/2018 at 9:19 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Not a problem you can shave 2 degrees off your tune if you have a Quadzilla. 

 

 

So which is it? 

 

Bigger injectors need more timing or get rid of timing via quadzilla. The HO already adds timing. 

 

The injectors responded extremely well for me. Very well. With no smoke.

 

And my screwy situation really negates a boost fooler and elbow.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

You might still want to have the Quadzilla because high cetane fuel requires retarding in the winter time to gain MPG's back hence the design around the MPG fooler. Excessive timing with high cetane fuel makes for really low MPG in the dead of winter. I've been able to hit 20 MPG this last winter even with the 7 x 0.0085 injectors. 

 

Now I'm gearing up for the fuel price hike and going for the gold on my high mark which is 27.2 MPG hand math. I've already started the tune and will be reporting my MPG as I go. 

[Ben]

Well a little update. should of done this sooner. 

 

I was able to hand calc 3 tanks coming down to my parents. 

 

20, 21, and 23. 

 

I drove 1800-1920 rpm the whole way down. Speed limit 65, 1800 rpm. 70 mph, needle width below 70. I was in no hurry.

 

I got in a spot around midnight in Indianapolis where I really had to jam it and there was minor smoke in the mirror. Oh well. 

 

The idle is squirrelly with these. Just erratic. I had same idle with DDP 150's but never with DFI 100's or 6x.013's. 

 

I might keep that in mind down the road.

 

I'm ordering up some parts from Vulcan for a fuel pressure test port in the middle of the line from stock filter to pump. It's a pain in the butt to undo the line to the gauge from the fitting and hook up a gauge. I would rather have an easily accessible spot mid line to hook a mechanical gauge up to. 

 

The 13-14 psi for a new pump/filters bugs me. Something is off.

 

I leave for home tomorrow evening. So hopefully mileage is as decent.