Quadzilla tuning assistance

[crav70]

I've been running the Daily tune from the tune repository here with a few adjustments but I'm not sure if ive helped or hurt the performance. I have also switched to a "Daily" tune that i wrote based off of the Daily tune in the repository. My issue seems to be I cannot get the turbo to light well and egts cruising 65-70 are 1000* or more. Cruising 65-70 I'm around 1800 rpms with 0-2psi of boost. If I roll into the throttle and try to pass or accelerate it will skyrocket to 1500*. But i have no real excess smoke as before and i can drive pretty smoke free on the max level, but when it does smoke it seems to have a greyish tint.

I haven't been happy with the truck since swapping from the RV275s and hx35 with an Edge. I wasn't crazy about the edge then but I at least had decent fuel mileage. Now my mileage is down to 12-13 city or highway it doesn't matter. I'm to the point of swapping to a he351cw or selling the truck. My question is where do I need to start with the tune to help lower egts?

 

Also attempting to upload the tune for everyone to see

iQuad-2019-09-26-09.51.19.json

[Me78569]

have you done a boost leak test?  

 

 

 

sounds like you have one or some sort of issue post changing the turbo and injectors.

 

 

how does the quadzilla's default tune run?  if that doesn't go like stink for you and cruise nice you have another issue.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Me78569

[crav70]

I've sprayed soapy water looking for leaks and haven't found any. I will try again when I get home. Also I haven't tried the default tune but will load it up and take it for a spin later to see. 

[Me78569]

ok,

 

I don't see how cruising egt's could be that high due to tuning.  

[crav70]

I really don’t either. Funny thing is it done it with the edge too. Leads me to think there’s another issue but where

[Me78569]

how does the turbo spin?  is it free spinning?   exhaust side leaks? dragging brakes?  is the wastegate adjusted or is it blowing up right away?

Edited September 26, 2019 by Me78569

[crav70]

Spun free last I checked but I have t checked lately. I haven’t seen any soot trails around the manifold. Is there a good way to check for exhaust leaks?  The wastegate is adjusted just how it was sent from DAP. I haven’t went messing with it. It has a boost elbow in it but how would it need to be set?

[Me78569]

Maybe I would test to see when the wastegate is opening. 

[crav70]

I have somewhat of an idea on testing the actuator. I will see if I can gather some tools to test. Where would one want the wastegate to open on a single turbo sysyem?

[Me78569]

above 30 psi would my guess.full yopen by ~45psi?  

 

@dieselautopower any thoughts on when the wastegate should open.

[crav70]

How would a boost elbow effect these numbers if the testing is done without the elbow?

[dieselautopower]

Wastegate should open when drive pressure becomes above 1:1 or 1.2 drive :1.0 boost

 

I would definitely check for boost leak. 

 

What is the max boost you can hit?  Should be 35-45psi with the box turned up. 

[crav70]

Depending on which tune  but i can generally hit 35-45 psi no problem. Just may take it awhile to get there. It seems to make full boost around 22-2300 rpms.

[dieselautopower]

Check boost leaks for sure.  

 

2200-2300 seems normal for full boost.

 

I have also seen faulty pyrometer, or one that is grounding out adjust EGT displayed temps.

 

Have you got a temp gauge gun to see if one cylinder is running much hotter? Maybe its a problem with one injector.

 

[crav70]

Have not checked cylinider temps but I will. The autometer Pyro reads about 100* hotter than the one on the Quad.

[kzimmer]

Are you running two pyrometers? Or sharing one pyrometers and splitting the signal? Option #2 MAY work but it's not recommended. Option #1 could easily explain a 100° difference due to pyrometers placement. 

[crav70]

2 hours ago, kzimmer said:

Are you running two pyrometers? Or sharing one pyrometers and splitting the signal? Option #2 MAY work but it's not recommended. Option #1 could easily explain a 100° difference due to pyrometers placement. 

Yes I am running two pyros and I’ll attach a picture of their placement. 
 

6 hours ago, Me78569 said:

how does the turbo spin?  is it free spinning?   exhaust side leaks? dragging brakes?  is the wastegate adjusted or is it blowing up right away?

Just pulled air intake to confirm free turbo spinning and it spins but it’s not like the Garrett I rebuilt in my 6.0 that spins nicely when spun with two fingers. But there isn’t any excessive shaft play. 
 

3 hours ago, dieselautopower said:

Check boost leaks for sure.  

 

2200-2300 seems normal for full boost.

 

I have also seen faulty pyrometer, or one that is grounding out adjust EGT displayed temps.

 

Have you got a temp gauge gun to see if one cylinder is running much hotter? Maybe its a problem with one injector.

 

Just sprayed for boost leaks at an idle with a leak detection solution from work. I didn’t see any bubbles. But I will confirm this this weekend when I can hook up the boost leak kit to the air compressor. 
Also I checked the boost elbow and it was bottomed out. I backed it off 1/4 turn (not sure if that will help or hurt). 
 

 

I've loaded the default tune in and I’m going to take it on a drive this evening. I’m currently waiting for the FLIR camera to check cylinder temps. 
Unfortunately I wasn’t able to acquire everything to check wastegate operation or opening pressure but I will be sure to do that this weekend while in the shop. 
 

As stated before I will take it on a drive and report back. Thank you all for the help and suggestions thus far. 

[kzimmer]

1 hour ago, crav70 said:

Just sprayed for boost leaks at an idle with a leak detection solution from work. I didn’t see any bubbles. But I will confirm this this weekend when I can hook up the boost leak kit to the air compressor. 

 

Definitely pressure it up. Super important. But be careful.

 

 

[crav70]

Okay so I took the truck out for a spin and found some good data and some rather unusual data. 

 

First I loaded the Default tune and had it set to power level 5 for the testing. Current weather for the time was 92*, Scan tool was reading 128* on air intake temp, and the truck was just shy of operating temp on the dash with the quadzilla reading 165.

 

 

I took the FLIR camera and checked cylinder temps at an idle in the driveway.

Coolant temp was 165 by the Quad at the time of recording temps.

Cylinder 1 was 175*-183*

Cylinder 2 was 188*-198*

Cylinder 3 was 195*-200*

Cylinder 4 was also 195*-200*

Cylinder 5 was 183*-190*

Cylinder 6 was 183-190*

 

Not sure  why Number 1 is that much lower than the rest but I'm also not 100% confident in my readings but they were the best I could get until I can use an actual temp gun. 

 

I took the truck on a 10 mile run (half highway and half stop and go). 

First thing I tried to look for was how long it would take to get to 10 lbs of boost. Best i could tell it seemed to make 10 lbs around 1900 rpms in 2nd gear and would continue to build from there. Seemed to top out around 35 lbs at 2300 rpms. Cruising still no more than 3psi of boost and when accelerating boost took forever to come on and EGTs would hit 1500*. But cruise EGTs were around 900* on flat ground at 75-77 mph and rocket to 1150*-1200* at any slight incline. And these readings were in overdrive and the trans didn't seem to want to downshift with pedal movement but more on that at the end.

 

After coming back from the drive I took the camera and checked temps on all 4 calipers to see if there was a possible dragging brake. 

 

Left Front - 335*-340*              Right Front - 330*-337*

 

Left Rear - 225*-235*               Right Rear - 225*-235*

 

Here again these are the most accurate I could get without a temp gun. 

 

Now for the information that has thrown me for a loop. 

 

Earlier I stated the Trans didn't want to downshift properly ( I would have to floor it to get a downshift ) and I believe the next bit of data has something to do with that. 

 

I was monitoring the APPS % on both the scan tool and on my Quad.

Ouad while cruising would stay 18%-24%, and would vary based upon accelerator pedal placement.

The scan tool however would read APPS % while cruising very sporadically (24%-0%-2%-18%-6%-30%- etc....). Mind you i'm also monitoring the APPS% with the Quad simultaneously and its holding consistent and my foot hasn't moved. Also no codes other than one for the Lift Pump circuit out of range. 

 

I believe I'm now fighting multiple issues but 

My question is does the Quad need to be unhooked for the Scan tool to get a proper reading from the diagnostic port? Or does the Quad get the same APPS% reading from the same place as the Scan tool or is the signal modified in some way by the Quad which throws off the Scan tool reading. 

 

I believe I need to test the APPS to confirm if it is working properly but I would also like to retest for a boost leak by blocking off every thing up to the intake horn and hooking it to a regulated air source. And I still need to check wastegate function but I will do that when I am checking for a boost leak again. 

 

I have a datalog file from the run. I'm not sure how much data it holds that is useful but I will try to upload it.

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

 

iQuad-2019-09-26-17.49.21.csv.crdownload

[Me78569]

You can leave the quad connected.  

 

There are 3 buses on the vp4 trucks

j1939 that the quad uses

cci bus that the computers talk to each other on

sci bus that scan tools use.

 

the scan tool and the quad are reading apps data from different sources.  The quad is reading hte ecm output so I would tend to believe that.  

 

 

 

I am going to guess your wastegate is opening way to soon.