White smoke, low power when starting

[Shimritz]

Greetings.  New subscriber, so maybe point me in the right direction please.  Very intermittent throttle drop out out at 1800 RPM's (randomly every other month), check engine light:  Code was MAPP sensor, TPS replaced 8 years ago with upgraded sensor and pigtail.  Truck starts with no problems and runs fine, but then any push on accelerator produces clouds of white smoke and rough running sound.  When beginning to drive there is low power and it doesn't run "right".  After 5-10 minutes easy driving everything seems normal and it runs good with good boost (42#+ if I hammer on it).

 

I am taking it to the shop on Wed April 27 to have new MAPP sensor installed and pulling out my Bully Dog/Blue Chip FMS stack to install a Quadzilla to hopefully address some of my smoke and egt issues.

 

Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated. 

 

I left out 75 HP Dynamite Diesel injectors on my sig

 

Thanks

[Silverwolf2691]

What Blue Chip VP44 did you get? 17X seems like the standard HO pump and not the special x. Just want to confirm.. 

 

Tps being 8 years old might, possibly, be bad again. Timbo is our APPS of choice, less electronic stuff to get mucked up.

 

The smoke, is it actually white or is it gray? It seems like a timing and or injector issue.. DDPs arent the cleanest injector either... Unless some of the rumors I've heard about them cleaning things up injector wise recently are actually true... 

 

Btw welcome to the forum! Heard over to the introductions forum and say hi. 

 

Final thoughts... what were your codes if you wrote them down or remember them off hand..

[Shimritz]

The standard pump was recommended by my mechanic and Blue Chip.

 

I'll get a TPS too, cost is minimal and YouTube university provides a clear understanding of install.

 

Mechanic recommended DDP and stated injectors were flow matched, etc.  I did not do my homework on this.

 

I'll call my mechanic today and track down the code.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Silverwolf2691]

DDPs are (were) a good price point but have (had) the wrong nozzle cone angle. it causes a lot of high EGTs and smoke that it takes a lot of pulled fuel in a quadzilla to get them to behave nicely..

 

I have the past and present qualifiers there because there was an article that came out about them that said that they got new machines I think in 2020 to help with machining the injectors. Maybe they are trying to improve their quality and clean up their injectors.

[Mopar1973Man]

Quadzilla is worth it. EGTs could also be bad final ratio. What axle do you have? What sized tires? 

[Shimritz]

I'm happy to hear about the Quadzilla, it hurt a bit to buy it since I already own two chips/programmers!

 

I have 3.53 axle and 265 70 17 Michelin and Nokian tires

 

Could you please explain bad final ratio?  I feel I have had a consistent EGT problem since adding modifications and have been looking for my weak link.  Dropping injector size from a CPP 125 has helped without reducing power and I hope the Quad will keep me moving in the right direction.  I live at 6800' so I know I am a bit air starved, but would like to avoid going to compounds as I tow a 5000# empty dump trailer regularly.

 

I appreciate the input.

[Mopar1973Man]

13 minutes ago, Shimritz said:

Could you please explain bad final ratio?

Like putting 35 inch tires on 3.55 gears which makes a final ratio of 3.21 to the ground. Optimal to the ground is 3.55 to 3.73. So I'm running 245/75 R16 on 3.55 gears making 3.69:1 to the ground. This put me at 66 MPH at 2,000 RPM. This is a really good final ratio which has me topped out 28.04 MPG. This is partially due to lighter rotation mass being my wheels and tires are roughly 65 pounds per wheel. Rotation Mass affects acceleration and weight affects how much power is needed to keep rolling.

 

Notice the elevation doesn't change and egts are low.

 

 

[Shimritz]

I'm happy to hear about the Quadzilla, it hurt a bit to buy it since I already own two chips/programmers!

 

I have 3.53 axle and 265 70 17 Michelin and Nokian tires

 

Could you please explain bad final ratio?  I feel I have had a consistent EGT problem since adding modifications and have been looking for my weak link.  Dropping injector size from a CPP 125 has helped without reducing power and I hope the Quad will keep me moving in the right direction.  I live at 6800' so I know I am a bit air starved, but would like to avoid going to compounds as I tow a 5000# empty dump trailer regularly.

 

I appreciate the input.

[Silverwolf2691]

bad final ratio is the effective gearing of your diff ratio vs tire size. Anything that gets below 3.55 starts to hinder fuel economy. 3.55-3.73 is best

( @Mopar1973Man beat me to it..)

 

3.55s are one of two factory options, 4.10s being the other.

 

The phatshaft 62 is a 62/65/(12 or 14), if you don't have the 12cm housing, it might help to get one.. 150s would actually really like that turbo but that's at sea level.. Don't know how that would fare at 1.25ish miles up..

 

Compounds when sized right will perform just as well towing as a single turbo, only thing to fear is the price. Only time things get iffy is if you spec your own set or go power before towing for priority or sizing. 

[Shimritz]

Got it, very well explained.  Thanks.

 

I will try smaller/shorter tires next cycle.  I max out at <19 mpg on interstate driving, but that is at 75-80 mph and I have a heavy foot.  I have never seen above 20 mpg in the life of my 250K vehicle!  Can you point me to some of the forum threads that I can look at various mpg "formulas" for modifications.

 

Great stuff.  Thanks.

Thanks Silverwolf.

 

125s were great except the black smoke was awful unless you kept electronics down and off and were easy on the fuel at every start from stop.  Smoke better now and hoping Quad clears me up.  My power is good, egts thru the roof all the time.....700 driving around town easy.

 

I have the 12cm housing. 

 

My rig is work and tow, with occasional camping duty.  I've been talking to Diesel Power Source about compounds and Turbonator and have been impressed with their knowledge.

 

Thank you.

[Silverwolf2691]

Doing better than me... max ever was 15-16 mpg.. 4.10s suck on the highway with small tires...

 

Back off the speed (i know i know) and you should get there..

 

There were some scattered about but I can't seem to find them or the recent one from @Mopar1973Man.. 

 

what formulas were you thinking? Every truck is different so what works for some might not work for everyone...

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm running...

 

150 HP injectors popped at 320 bar

Quadzilla Adrenaline tuner with my economy tune

HX35W turbo

4 inch exhaust straight pipe

30 inch tires (245/75 R16)

NV4500 transmission

BHAF

[LorenS]

Weird and sporadic problems leads one to start thinking electrical. Have you done the W-T mod (see page 2 of Articles section)? Checked alternator A/C noise?

[Mopar1973Man]

Only thing I would do is ditch the Blue Chip Pump and go back to a stock VP44. Modified pump could pose a problem being like Blue Chip pump do with building tunes. Stock VP44 is much much better for tuning over hot rod or Blue Chip pumps. Proper final ratio has to do with getting the power to the ground without heat. Good final ratio to the ground of 3.55 to 3.73 is required. If your running oversized tires on 3.55 gear I will bet your EGTs are high.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Silverwolf2691]

Doesn't seem to be a Special X, so I think he's good there.. Just the regular HO pump judging from the 17X notation in the sig

 

I think the "best" is the all new parts version.. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Silverwolf2691

[Shimritz]

It's a stock vp

 

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

If your running oversized tires on 3.55 gear I will bet your EGTs are high.

I believe his tires are 31.6" in diameter. Compared to a 30.5" 245/75/16 I can't imagine that's an issue worth writing home about at this time.  The Adrenaline should make a great improvement, but the following issues need to be diagnosed and resolved first:

 

23 hours ago, Shimritz said:

Very intermittent throttle drop out

and 

23 hours ago, Shimritz said:

any push on accelerator produces clouds of white smoke and rough running sound

@Shimritz do you have a means of looking at live data when this happens, and/or data log?  An OBD reader like OBDlink LX or MX+ is a great tool to have, and pretty inexpensive in the grand scheme of things.  Once you get your Adrenaline hooked up it can do a lot of the same things but not all.  If you can hit 'record' on the data-logging and in maybe 4th or 5th gear go slow and steady from zero to full throttle in 4-5 seconds, that should show TPS readings, MAP reading, IAT reading, fuel temperature, etc.  If your foot was steady in applying the go pedal and any of those jump around, we have clues to follow.  I see you have gauges, is the fuel pressure good?

[Shimritz]

LorenS, thanks for the input.  I'll look into a data logger.

 

White smoke and low power are becoming more consistent but generally vanish after 2-3 minutes of easy low acceleration driving.

 

My tires are 30-1/2" tall

 

Thank you for the very helpful response.

 

 

[LorenS]

5 minutes ago, Shimritz said:

My tires are 30-1/2" tall

Are they bald?  Most every 265/70/17 tire I've seen is in the 31.5" diameter range, when new.
I bought one of these 4 years ago, based on the then-current Mopar1973Man recommendation.  I still use it regularly, the app is great.

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlink-lx/

[Shimritz]

Probably closer to 31"  my measuring technique is fairly primitive.

 

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.