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Mopar1973Man

Bosch Testing of Fuels...

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Oh Boy the document I was looking for... Quick summary of why IP pump and injections fail in Bosch eyes is the fuel lubricity is too LOW!!!! Here you go gang Bosch did testing on USA fuel and don't even come close to the standards of Europe fuel... http://forum.mopar1973man.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=5

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Good information! I guess this begs the question of how much improvement does the 2 stroke oil we add to our diesel fuel improve the lubricity? I am pretty sure it definitely helps but how much I suppose there is no way of knowing without exhaustive testing. Heck, diesel fuel doesn't even smell like diesel fuel anymore. :confused:

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Good information! I guess this begs the question of how much improvement does the 2 stroke oil we add to our diesel fuel improve the lubricity? I am pretty sure it definitely helps but how much I suppose there is no way of knowing without exhaustive testing. Heck, diesel fuel doesn't even smell like diesel fuel anymore. :confused:

I got your answer the LiveOak... :thumbsup http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/2-cycle-oil/hfrr/hfrr.htm

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Thanks Mike. I mix mine at 100:1. I would think that would be HFRR 460 or a little better.

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Thanks Mike. I mix mine at 100:1. I would think that would be HFRR 460 or a little better.

Well your hitting that mark for sure... LOL Ok a little verification... If the fuel your getting was at typical standards 520 HFRR than if you mixed at 200:1 you would hit at (520-162) = 358 HFRR But being you doubling you doze to the chart then it would be roughly (520 - (162 x 2)) = 196 HFRR. So in simple nmath your covered well even...

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Someone over at TDG said they new someone that works where they fill the rail car tankers at the refinery. Said they are only adding about 3gal of lubricty to a tanker. I don't know and can't verify how true this is, but it wouldn't supprise me if it were. I know lately I have been running a lttle more 2cycle like 1.2 oz per gal for the drier winter fuel. I have not been using the supposidly B5 I was getting for awhile now due to that stations prices are 50 cents a gal higher than the Flying-J in north Idaho. I would think since winter fuels, especially if its no.1that were getting around these parts, wouldn't it be better to up the doseage of 2cycle a little? My truck seems to like the added lubricity, as I can tell a slight difference in the engine noise and it runs smoother. No power loss that I can tell other than whats normal for winter fuel. Harry

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I'm starting to ask the local fuel stations if they are getting winterized or summer fuel... Found some stations are summer fuel already while others are not. As for the 2 cycle oil I've been down to as low as 100:1 mix rate but beyond that you start to see degrade in power / MPG's.From what I know the lubricant package is suppose to be added to the fuel at the time of filling the delievery truck. :confused: Railroads??? We don't have any railroad here anymore... `:(

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Well, I found the thread at TDG, the guy was from Canada I found out from his signature. Heres a direct quote from his post: [My buddy works at a Shell refinery and he says in the amount of #2 diesel that would fit into a rail car, they only add about 3 gallons of lubricant as required by the government] So maybe its diferent in Canada, but I would imagine its not all that much different, since they are running the same vehicles as us. Harry

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Wow... That's scary... :wow 8| I still just look at Bosch testing back in 2002 with LSD and the failure rate... That says it all and why the VP44 fail so quickly even then... I don't think there testing fuel being delievered to the local station very offen if at all... :( Could you drop a link to that???

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Michael, its in the 2008+ 6.4 Ford forum TDG, heres the thread:[ Winter Issues... ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) Bighurt ], post no.23 on page 3. Sorry thats the best I know how to forward this , unless I emailed it. Harry

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Michael, its in the 2008+ 6.4 Ford forum TDG, heres the thread:[ Winter Issues... ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) Bighurt ], post no.23 on page 3. Sorry thats the best I know how to forward this , unless I emailed it. Harry

Well now that captured... LOL http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/s ... stcount=23 (simple... click on the post number when the new window pop open copy & paste the address information from the browser. Then paste to the new post. ;)

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Great just got a 2 for 1 at autozone on some lucas.... Do you think I could add the 2 cycle on top of it? I would hate to throw it away.

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Hey, Mike who is this "guest"?

Have them register as a member it will add to the creditability of there posts.

A few things that I've read raise some questions.

This test is a few years old and it was done with 500ppm or 700ppm?

Was this test done with raw fuel or had the additive package been added and who's additive package was it if one was added?

Has the additive package changed with ulsd?

ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels this standard went into effect January 1, 2005???

15PPM ULSD with 1% bio has the same lubricity as 500PPM dino.

A couple of comets

Crude is distributed by pipe line to the refinery and fuel is distributed from the refinery's to your local fuel depot's that are owned by various distributors by pipe line. It is at this depot that the additives are added. Our fuel is not distributed by rail car but by tanker truck to your local station.

If fuel wasn't distributed by pipe line our highways and rail would be clogged with tankers.

There are large pipe lines from Canada to the states bringing us crude from the tar sands.

We have a refinery close by and all of the different stations, shell, bp, sinclair, conoco ALL get there fuel at the same place. It is at the depot that the Co, adds the additives that make the fuel theirs.

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Hey, Mike who is this "guest"? Have them register as a member it will add to the creditability of there posts.

That was back in the days of the PHPbb forum and I had a script to clean up old members and delete them. so during the conversion to VBulletin in created Guest account to fill the post in...

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i agree with 90% of what you said snofarmer. in oklahoma we have several refineries. the notable ones are phillips66 and valero. i believe these only deliver fuel to the stores in question. most no name places like 7eleven and quicktrip use the phillips66. i believe because of their location they are the cheapest in this area

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I would say there need to be new testing done on this but its not cheap. It took quite a bit funds wise from what I heard to get the test when DieselPlace.com did it. But since then it got quiet... I'm sure there are some companies producing better fuels out there but once again is the additive package being adding in proper amount ot the quanity of fuel? Is the fuel being testd for quality and HFRR score minimums? :confused: This could go on and on for a lifetime time... What is comes do to is that we known that all Bosch equipment requires 400 or less HFRR score. We know that most fuels today would rarely touch that number unless its BioDisel 2% or better. So it up to you as a owner to protect your vehicle the best was you can...

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cool local kragen/oreilly exchanged me out of the Lucas for Valvoline tc-w3 12.99/gal . :woot:

Edited by Howie67

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i agree with 90% of what you said snofarmer. in oklahoma we have several refineries. the notable ones are phillips66 and valero. i believe these only deliver fuel to the stores in question. most no name places like 7eleven and quicktrip use the phillips66. i believe because of their location they are the cheapest in this area

Your right some areas have more than one refinery. like in Billings mt, and they refine fuel for there own stations but around hear we only have one refinery. All of the gas stations get there fuel from the same place, in the same area you will see fuel depots with the diffrent distributors logo's on the tanks. Every area would need to have a dozen refineries other wise. Other wise the roads would be full of tanker trucks hauling fuel from Conocos refinery to there stations for example. The refinery's are to far apart to make it feasible to refine all of the fuel your stations will need. . No matter who refines the crude oil all fuel is the same until it gets to the fuel depot, that is where the addtive packages is add to the fuel. I kind of wonder about this proublem. I've run some older cummins engines and we ran some crappy fuel, interspooge is what we called it. It's the fuel that is at the beginning or end of a shipment. When fuel, gas, etc etc leaves the refinery it is carried by pipeline across the state/contery they no longer use a "pig" to keep the fuels separate. so some of the shipment gets mixed with the shipment before and after it. Thus interspooge. this mix of fuel is sold to industry to be consumed. We never experienced and fuel problems? Maybe the fuel is the proublem maybe Bosh is the proublem as they knew the lubricity property's of the fuel in the US and they still MFG a pump that would not hold up to it? just some thoughts.

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Maybe the fuel is the proublem maybe Bosh is the proublem as they knew the lubricity property's of the fuel in the US and they still MFG a pump that would not hold up to it? just some thoughts.

i do not like to think that Bosch designed the VP-44 to fail early...i think research and development wanted fully electronic injection. but i believe in an effort to meet new emission standards, they rushed to create a pump that would meet emissions while other injection strategies were finalized and made into production. but this is all speculation... for a fact they know that bad fuel kills pumps. i have heard people say the the CRD is even more picky. so it would lead one to believe that either our fuel once had been better quality than it is now, or the mechanical pumps aren't as picky. being a diesel novice i can only guess and speculate.

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