Best Tuner to buy??

[copperdodge]

I'll have to go look around at their website. Thanks...

So, you can pretty well run the JR with no gauges? Or at least no concerns over damaging motor stuff?

--- Update to the previous post...

What do people think of the TST PowerMax? Is it worth pursuing?

[AH64ID]

I didn't run stock without gauges!I have only had one time where I have had to back out of the throttle for EGT's with the Jr, and really I should have been in 5th, but was seeing if the truck would do it in 6th. But I would still run boost/EGT. I really like my Jr, does everything I need. TST gets good reviews, more of a top end/race tuner where the Jr is a better bottom end/towing tuner.

[copperdodge]

So this is why the TST and Smarty are a pretty common stack? Did you upgrade your clutch with the JR?Are there other options for a gauge pod other than the pillar mount? I'd really like to keep my grab handle and keep that blind spot down to a minimum...

[AH64ID]

So this is why the TST and Smarty are a pretty common stack?

They are stacked to get a strong bottom end and strong top end. The Smarty fuel harder low and the TST fuels harder higher.

Did you upgrade your clutch with the JR?

Not yet....

Are there other options for a gauge pod other than the pillar mount? I'd really like to keep my grab handle and keep that blind spot down to a minimum...

[dorkweed]

Dang Man, that looks like the "cock pit" of a jumbo jet!!!!!!! I get that comment from folks when they see my 3 gauge pillar mount and my digital RP gauge on the column!!!

Mr. CopperDodge, if you plan on doing any BOMBing to your truck, GAUGES are the first thing you should install. This is so you have a "baseline" to what your future "power adders" do to the inner workings of your truck.

You can add all the power stuff without gauges...........like they do on CF.............and then post why your truck blew up...........or you can follow this progression......

1. Gauges........FP, EGT, RP, boost, tranny(if auto)..........these are the minimum IMHO

2. Lift Pump Upgrade.........self explanatory

3. Intake and Exhaust

4. Tranny Upgrade...............Clutch for manual..........VB, TC, and maybe billet shafts for auto

5. Power Adder........box or programmer

If you're going for stupid power......then also do these

6. Head Studs

7. Turbo or Turbos (twins)

8. Injectors

AH64ID has done much of this........not in this order necessarily, but he's done it. He has a plan though...........the "Dudes" on CF don't. If you don't heed my advice, please......for your trucks' sake.......listen to AH64ID!!!!!!

I use the term "Dude" here, like the old cowboys used it. A "Dude" is a neophyte, newbie, rookie, fancy-type, showy, "more fluff than snuff". So in other words.......I mean ignoramous!!!

[JOHNFAK]

Get gauges and a smarty for an 05 still under the 1k you mentioned and plenty power ;)

[copperdodge]

Mr. CopperDodge, if you plan on doing any BOMBing to your truck, GAUGES are the first thing you should install. This is so you have a "baseline" to what your future "power adders" do to the inner workings of your truck.

You can add all the power stuff without gauges...........like they do on CF.............and then post why your truck blew up...........or you can follow this progression......

1. Gauges........FP, EGT, RP, boost, tranny(if auto)..........these are the minimum IMHO

2. Lift Pump Upgrade.........self explanatory

3. Intake and Exhaust

4. Tranny Upgrade...............Clutch for manual..........VB, TC, and maybe billet shafts for auto

5. Power Adder........box or programmer

If you're going for stupid power......then also do these

6. Head Studs

7. Turbo or Turbos (twins)

8. Injectors

AH64ID has done much of this........not in this order necessarily, but he's done it. He has a plan though...........the "Dudes" on CF don't. If you don't heed my advice, please......for your trucks' sake.......listen to AH64ID!!!!!!

I hadn't really planned on running with no gauges, I was just asking about the "safety margin" for a Smarty JR. It seems like based on some Bob Wagener info that I've read and that earlier response (something about Jr's don't really need gauges) that the Smarty JR is kind of a good starter programmer for those of us who want to use their truck as a DD and tow all the time without fear of blowing stuff up. It seems like if you step up too high on the Smarty ladder, you start needing extra fuel & all sorts of other mods to make sure you don't blow stuff up. I'm still learning a lot as I go.

I'm not completely new to the "performance world" though... here's my other Dodge:

Right now, I am installing a 4" turbo-back exhaust and an AFE cold air setup. I guess gauges had damn well better be next...

Now, bear with me on some of these newb questions:

1. Is there a link someone can provide that shows how to install a new lift pump? I have heard that the FASS DDRP is a good start (I don't plan on getting crazy. Probably just a Smarty S06 and stock turbo for now).

2. So, what is the company that makes that 3-gauge pod? Is there a link for this?

3. Is there a link that shows where/how to install rail pressure sensor and where/how to install the fuel pressure sensor? I assume you are trying to get fuel pressure before the rail (to make sure lift pump is working) and then pressure in the rail to make sure the CP3 doesn't run out at WOT?

4. Do the CR trucks have shift defueling even on stickshifts? When I am really getting on it, the truck just feels completely soft when I shift. When I shift from 2-3 and so on, it has this horrific lag & then REALLY comes on at like 2000rpm. It seems like I couldn't even bark the tires if I was trying. Is this part of the factory programming? Just curious there...

[AH64ID]

I hadn't really planned on running with no gauges, I was just asking about the "safety margin" for a Smarty JR. It seems like based on some Bob Wagener info that I've read and that earlier response (something about Jr's don't really need gauges) that the Smarty JR is kind of a good starter programmer for those of us who want to use their truck as a DD and tow all the time without fear of blowing stuff up. It seems like if you step up too high on the Smarty ladder, you start needing extra fuel & all sorts of other mods to make sure you don't blow stuff up. I'm still learning a lot as I go. I'm not completely new to the "performance world" though... here's my other Dodge:

Right now, I am installing a 4" turbo-back exhaust and an AFE cold air setup. I guess gauges had damn well better be next... Now, bear with me on some of these newb questions: 1. Is there a link someone can provide that shows how to install a new lift pump? I have heard that the FASS DDRP is a good start (I don't plan on getting crazy. Probably just a Smarty S06 and stock turbo for now). 2. So, what is the company that makes that 3-gauge pod? Is there a link for this? 3. Is there a link that shows where/how to install rail pressure sensor and where/how to install the fuel pressure sensor? I assume you are trying to get fuel pressure before the rail (to make sure lift pump is working) and then pressure in the rail to make sure the CP3 doesn't run out at WOT? 4. Do the CR trucks have shift defueling even on stickshifts? When I am really getting on it, the truck just feels completely soft when I shift. When I shift from 2-3 and so on, it has this horrific lag & then REALLY comes on at like 2000rpm. It seems like I couldn't even bark the tires if I was trying. Is this part of the factory programming? Just curious there...

Your truck comes with a 4" exhaust, so unless its rusted out there is no benefit to an upgrade. Along the lines of the intake the OEM intake will support 450 rwhp with cooler IAT's than just about every, if not all, aftermarket intakes. The best thing is to do a couple cheaper mods that will improve low end flow, cooler air, and outperform the aftermarket CAI for less $$. As for your questions. 1) There are several threads on the bigger forums on installing them. The DDRP will not be an upgrade for your 05, the intank pumps are good units and will push all the fuel you need for a Smarty Jr. Put a fuel psi gauge on it for now. 2)There are several companies that make them, I think auto-meter is one of them. http://www.dieselmanor.com/gauges/DM-3gk-isd.asp 3) All rail pressure gauges utilize the OEM sender. Its a very easy install you just unplug the OEM sender, put the rail psi plug on, then replug the OEM sender. You want fuel pressure after the last filter and before the CP3. As far as installing the psi sender, are you going to do a big line kit or leave it stock? 4) There is no shift defueling on manuals. There is tq management thou, and I don't know the speed at which is quits, but I have heard 35 mph. What you are experiencing is OEM programming, 2K rpms is a huge power increase, especially at lower speeds.

[copperdodge]

I need to make a signature for myself... I have an early 2004, not an 04.5...The exhaust on mine is 3.5" from the turbo back to the muffler and then 4" to the tail pipe. I have read too many MPG posts where increasing to 4" will get me better MPG. I was considering 5", but it seems that 4" exhaust will support up to 450rwhp also. Maybe I'll send the cold air intake back & get one of those mid-pipes that replaces the "muffler sections" of the factory intake tract. I think it's AirRaid that makes it?Anyhow, does the DDRP get me enough fuel to support the Smarty REVO with a stock turbo?I had no plans for a big-line kit, mostly because I have no idea what they do. Are the factory lines that restrictive? What would be the gain (approx)?I assume that the SMarty & others will take care of the factory programming & get rid of that "lag" that I'm describing?Thanks for all the patience with the newbie....

[AH64ID]

Gotcha.You will probably see a EGT drop from the 4" TBE, but I wouldn't count on mileage.. but who knows. Yes Airaid makes them. Also see if you can score a lower 90* elbow from a 04.5+.A big line kit replaces the small (less than .25") line from the filter to the CP3, they do help improve flow. The good big line/filter kit is the MK2+ from GDP. Being a 04 you have an HE341 turbo, so you won't get too much tuning with the Smarty before it gets hot on you, maybe +100 hp empty and +60 towing. The DDRP is borderline for that power, I would go with a Raptor.

[copperdodge]

Is that lower elbow the one that has the directional vanes in it? I read somewhere (probably here) that Holset says it's a 30% increase in the efficiency of the air flow into the turbo... So, if I keep the OEM filter box arrangement and do the mods for cold air, what filter insert do I use? I've heard the pleated paper insert isnt too efficient. I'd like to stay away from the wash & oil versions. Just a good-flowing dry drop-in...Should I run the Raptor in line with the factory pump or just replace the factory pump?I'll have to look into the bigline kit. Sounds like a good idea for the CP3's sake...So, if I want eventually want to drive around on the 130hp tune or even the 170hp tune on the SMarty, I probably want a bigger turbo... there's the next set of questions. LOL... which one is a good start?I need to tow about 7500 lbs with it every weekend and I need it to be dead reliable as it's my DD and my work truck. I guess I need to get a PoD tuner so I don't have to spend 5 minutes every Saturday morning re-tuning before I hitch up the trailer?

[AH64ID]

That is correct, I read some where (Cummins press release) that the vanes improved the efficiency up to 30%. The stock 4" pleat filter is the one to run. I would remove the OEM LP, and put the raptor back by the trans. I would also put a filter head with a BF1212 inline before the pump. 130-170 tunes will probably need a larger turbo, and at least a bag of parts on the CP3. I just installed a Garrett GT3782R Stage 2 turbo. I would support the 170 tune for daily driving, and be killer as a towing turbo on the 60hp tune. I personally don't like the idea of PoD for towing, I will only tow with PoD at 99. I have done short trips from storage to the house on PoD 60 (HUGE mistake) and PoD 85 (really didn't like). Maybe its better with higher tunes, but I won't do it. I prefer to keep the settings where I tow and DD there, still plenty of get up and go... but I also don't ever really get on it.

[JOHNFAK]

See if ah64id will sell you his he351cw turbo ..... Great upgrade for the he341 and only cost you a couple hundred once you sell yours .... Don't know if he still has it ;)

[copperdodge]

I would remove the OEM LP, and put the raptor back by the trans. I would also put a filter head with a BF1212 inline before the pump.

I'll have to do some more reading on fittings & all that, but you're suggesting mounting it to the frame back by the trans? Is there an in-tank pump on my 04 or is it just gravity feeding down to the Raptor at that point?

130-170 tunes will probably need a larger turbo, and at least a bag of parts on the CP3.

This is where I am torn between the full on Smarty & the JR. i have a friend with a 6.7 truck with the H&S mini-maxx and his 170 tune is humongous. I'd love to drive around like that, but switching it back & forth for towing seems like it would be a pain to hook up & download for 5 minutes, etc.

I just installed a Garrett GT3782R Stage 2 turbo. I would support the 170 tune for daily driving, and be killer as a towing turbo on the 60hp tune. I personally don't like the idea of PoD for towing, I will only tow with PoD at 99. I have done short trips from storage to the house on PoD 60 (HUGE mistake) and PoD 85 (really didn't like). Maybe its better with higher tunes, but I won't do it. I prefer to keep the settings where I tow and DD there, still plenty of get up and go... but I also don't ever really get on it.

Maybe I don't understand the PoD setup & how it works... why don't you recommend towing on lesser power values? What was the huge mistake, etc?

[AH64ID]

I'll have to do some more reading on fittings & all that, but you're suggesting mounting it to the frame back by the trans? Is there an in-tank pump on my 04 or is it just gravity feeding down to the Raptor at that point?

Your 04 came with an engine mounted pump, but may have been upgraded to the in-tank. It won't have both. The closer to the tank the pump is the better.

This is where I am torn between the full on Smarty & the JR. i have a friend with a 6.7 truck with the H&S mini-maxx and his 170 tune is humongous. I'd love to drive around like that, but switching it back & forth for towing seems like it would be a pain to hook up & download for 5 minutes, etc.

I hope your buddy has studs or a EWG to run that 170 tune! It takes a bit of supporting mods to run +170 at its full potential. There are lots of folks that tow on their DD settings, they just watch the gauges a little closer and are easier on the go pedal. But if you tow in cruise you can't control power spikes, and IMHO, that can be very hard on the drive train. You also only have the ability to cool about 400 rwhp sustained when towing.

Maybe I don't understand the PoD setup & how it works... why don't you recommend towing on lesser power values? What was the huge mistake, etc?

PoD essentially re-calibrates the APPS. So if you were set at PoD 50 the WOT reference to the ECM would be the same as 50% throttle on PoD99. This is how it reduces power, which is fine for a DD but when you tow you need the ability to go WOT. It's not like you are detuning the motor, your just not appying as much pedal, even thou you may be WOT. When I have towed off of PoD 99 the truck is very very slow to accelerate and depending on the PoD setting wont get above a certain rpm, I have been WOT on a flat in 4th gear and topped out at 2500 rpms because the ECM won't push any more fuel, even thou it has the power to go faster the throttle position won't allow it. I hope thats clear as mud.

[copperdodge]

Having just got in from the muffler shop with my new 4" exhaust, I got a chance to look at things while it was up on the lift. It looks like you were suggesting mounting the Raptor right where the metal fuel line transitions into rubber? Kinda right beside the bellhousing... When I turn the key, the pump noise is definitely right by the fuel filter, so I guess mine never got the upgrade.I don't know if my buddy got the studs, but this shop was an H&S dealer, so I would hope they would have warned him. I'll let him know...I don't really ever tow in cruise so that I have control over the pedal and most of my towing is on urban interstates here in Atlanta. Think of it as bumper to bumper trafffic, but still going 65-70mph. No way you can set cruise safely.Now I understand the POD setup... that sounds awfully risky and not really worth the money. And if I need studs & other mods to run a 170hp tune, then I just need to get the JR and hold off until this isn't my full-time work truck. Here are some other fun facts I learned this morning:1. Once the 4" turbo-back kit was installed, the filter minder jumped from "virginal" to the half-way point just driving in to work.2. This particular kit is a Summit kit that includes a 4" glass-pack bullet-style muffler. I didn't really check to make sure he installed it in the correct direction, but it pretty much sounds like a straight pipe. Very buzzy at 2000 rpm. No thanks. Off to Summit to get a bigger canister-style muffler to make it quiet again...3. Driving around with the window down is hilarious, though. It sounds like a Kenworth rolling through the neighborhoods...

[AH64ID]

If you install a raptor I would run hose from the tank all the way to the motor. If the LP is on the motor you will have a very easy job to install the raptor. If it were my truck I would get a doorman to 1/2" hose adapter, run 1/2" hose to a FB1311 filter base with a BF1212 on it, then 1/2" hose to the raptor. Then 3/8" hose (or 1/2") to the OEM canister, then 3/8" (or 1/2") to a GDP MK kit, then to the CP3, with a fuel psi sender just before the CP3, with a "T" in the hose. http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=4a-1-17-c-002 http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=MK20305-APPS I believe every Smarty comes with PoD these days. It has its places, but IMHO, towing isn't one of them. I would also look into Donaldson mufflers, the 40" M085171 is a good choice and they are quite cheap at ryderfleetproducts.com

[copperdodge]

I'll have to re-read that a few times, but thanks for all those tips. Does the GDP kit replace the factory filter, or leave the factory can in place?

[AH64ID]

You leave the factory filter in place.

[dorkweed]

130-170 tunes will probably need a larger turbo, and at least a bag of parts on the CP3.

Not necessarily so. I run SW5 default settings on my Smarty Revo..............the 130hp tune. I'm not doing so for all out power/speed etc. but for the timing and fueling specs that have given me better mileage than I ever got on my '99 Dodge/Cummins under all driving conditions. Folks that have driven my truck are amazed how much "get up and go" it's got............and it's a NV5600 6 speed rower!!! My truck is scary fast on the highway cruising............ain't too many vehicles on the road that'll take me in a 60mph to a 100mph exhibition!!! I know, I've done so. Mustangs, ricers, etc. I don't normally participate in such things, but when they're tail-gating me to where I cannot see the hood of their car in my rear view...........that just sets me off...............and I play accordingly!!! Most aren't willing to go much past 85mph........which is when "Mighty Whitey" starts taking off!!