Lift pump problem

[Davy]

Thanks for such a great forum, I'm having a problem with my lift pump. First off, I have an 02 Dodge / Cummins. It has 354k on it and has gone thru 4 or 5 lift pumps over the years. The pump is located on the side of the block. The Dodge dealer wants 1100 bucks to install the retro conversion pump in the tank and after doing some reading, many folks are saying to just buy the Fass DDRP-02 replacement pump, so I did. With the pump all hooked up, it won't work. It seems to be an electrical problem. Now I'm thinking that when my truck stopped running the other day, it wasn't the pump at all, but this electrical problem I'm now having. When I plug a 12V tester in the connector that comes from the engine, the tester light comes on for a split second and goes off when I click the key on. That's all it does. When the pump is plugged in and I click the key, nothing happens at all. I tested the pump with 12 V's and it runs fine. I took the fuel "system system" relay out and plugged one of the others into that spot and that didn't do any good.Is there another relay somewhere that I'm not finding? Thanks.

[Mopar1973Man]

Bump the starter the pump should run on for about 20-25 seconds.

Here is the wiring diagram for ya...

[dripley]

what ever you end up doing, do not let dodge install the in tank pump. that $1100 will buy more lp than you will ever need. i got one for $1000 bucks about 4 years ago and they are worthless. i installed an AD on mine about 6 months ago. when i turn my key on(just on no starter bump) the lift pump cycles and shuts down. it is only on for a split second and that is all. if i bump the starte it comes on for about 25 seconds. during that time if try and start the engine the pump cuts to about half pressure for the engine to start. full pressure will not allow the engine to start. pessure is returne dot full pressure after start up. long story short, key on slight bump to lp, bump starter lp on for 25 seconds, starting engine lp to about half pressure to start. on another note here, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? if not i would hightly encourage you to get one so you can monitor the fuel system in your truck. might save you vp later. have you ever change the vp?

[dually]

What should happen is this, Turn key on but not start= pump should run for 1 second.Bump starter pump should run 20 seconds or so. This is controlled by the ecm. Check the connections.

[Davy]

Thanks for the quick replies. I will try bumping the engine over to see if that will start the pump for 25 seconds. I know I clicked the key to the run position but not sure if I bumped the starter or not. No, I don't have a gauge yet. I just recently found out a few months ago from a mechanic about a weak lift pump will cause the VP to go out. I can definitely see the need for a gauge. That happened to me 20,000 miles back, both pumps went out. I can only hope the VP didn't go out again this time. I'm on my third VP. The first one went out at 98k. The second one went out at 334k. It has 354k miles now. I drive a lot of miles and I don't have many complaints about this truck. Still has the stock clutch and water pump. I've never added oil to the engine between changes, it doesn't use any. 21 to 22 MPG every tank unless I'm pulling a heavy trailer and it will drop to 17 to 17.5. Thanks again for the replies, I'll let you know the out come.

[dripley]

by your remarks i can see you love and respect what your truck can do and is capable of. i joined here 1 1/2 years ago not knowing a damn thing. i have learned enough to get another half million out of mine. that said you have to do it your way. take what you learn here and apply it as you see fit. there is no better steward of your vehicle than yourself.

[Mopar1973Man]

Couldn't say any better Dripley...

take what you learn here and apply it as you see fit. there is no better steward of your vehicle than yourself.

[Davy]

Thanks for the help. I had to work late thru the week and didn't have time to get my head back under the hood. I put it all back together and bumped the starter and just like you said, the pump started up and run for about 25 seconds. I read somewhere to do this several times, so I did. I cranked on it and it still won't crank. I ran down the batteries so I got my jumper cables out and hooked them up to my other truck and kept trying. It still wouldn't crank. Is there something else I need to do? Is there a way to know the VP is good or bad without a mechanic hooking a computer to the truck? The other day I clicked the key on and off 3 times within 5 seconds and the following came up on my dash. PPCU P1693 Pdone . Then it said PECU P0230 Pdone. I don't know what that means.

[dually]

230 is lift pump out of range.

[dripley]

Thanks for the help. I had to work late thru the week and didn't have time to get my head back under the hood. I put it all back together and bumped the starter and just like you said, the pump started up and run for about 25 seconds. I read somewhere to do this several times, so I did. I cranked on it and it still won't crank. I ran down the batteries so I got my jumper cables out and hooked them up to my other truck and kept trying. It still wouldn't crank. Is there something else I need to do? Is there a way to know the VP is good or bad without a mechanic hooking a computer to the truck? The other day I clicked the key on and off 3 times within 5 seconds and the following came up on my dash. PPCU P1693 Pdone . Then it said PECU P0230 Pdone. I don't know what that means.

the 1693 is telling you that you have a code in the othe computer, ecm or pcm. that other code is 230. there is an error code section in the forums. 230 is showing a problem with the lift pump. nextime you bump your starter open the water drain on the filter canister while the pump is runnig and fuel should squirt out quite abit. if not the pump is bad. if so it still is bad just because the oe pump is not a good pump, you really need to invest in a good lift pump and fuel pressure gauge. the toll bad pressure takes on your vp is irreversable. and when it goes thats another $1000.

[Davy]

Thanks, I have bought and installed a Fass DDRP-02. I have not installed a gauge yet just because I'm not sure which one I want or need. The pump seems to be running fine. Tomorrow I will open the drain line and see if fuel comes out.

[Davy]

Okay, I finally had time to get back under the hood, my job is getting in my way. I got my batteries charged back up and this evening I bumped the starter to get the pump going, and it did. I opened up the drain valve and a lot of fuel come gushing out. That Fass pump really puts it out. I went ahead and tried to crank it for about 10-15 seconds a couple times and it still won't crank up. I have a couple questions.I'm hoping my VP isn't damaged. Can I assume it isn't since a code didn't show up saying it is damaged?What would be my next step to getting the VP primed?

[dripley]

Okay, I finally had time to get back under the hood, my job is getting in my way. I got my batteries charged back up and this evening I bumped the starter to get the pump going, and it did. I opened up the drain valve and a lot of fuel come gushing out. That Fass pump really puts it out. I went ahead and tried to crank it for about 10-15 seconds a couple times and it still won't crank up. I have a couple questions. I'm hoping my VP isn't damaged. Can I assume it isn't since a code didn't show up saying it is damaged? What would be my next step to getting the VP primed?

good to hear you got your fuel flowing again. you probably have air in the system and you need to bleed it. open 1, 3, and 4 injector lines at the head. it does not have to those specificly but they are the easiest one to reach. bump your stater and get the lift pump running. do this several times and see if you have any fuel getting to the injector lines at the head. if not try it a feew more times. once you see some fuel try to crank it. if it still does not start, crack them open again and repeat. by now you ought to see some fuel at the lines. close them and try cranking again. if you have no fuel and it want start thing are not looking good for the vp. i have had to this 2 or 3 times before starting. the vp can go out without a code, but for the most part you ought to see something in the way of a code. the most imprtant thig you can do if the truck starts is GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE. no matter how much fuel you see squirting out of anything you will never know what is going on in that fuel system with out one. be patient the more air you have in the system the longer it takes to get it out.

[Davy]

Thanks, Dripley. I'll try that. Which fuel gauge do you recommend?

[dripley]

just so you will know i did not get my first one until just over a year ago. i ahve learned alot here also. it was a glow shift, pretty cheap and worke good until it got water hammered to death. it really did not go with the other gauges in the truck so it was not a grat loss. it did work good so i could not complain about it.i now have an isspro gauge. it is mechanical run straight inthe cab. it is connected thru a needle valve on the fuel line with no isolater. the needle valve is barely open and does the same thing. i believe it cost right at $50.

[Davy]

Well, I opened the three lines, bumped the starter twice, tightened the lines back since fuel was coming out of them and it fired up. It did some spit and sputtering but purrs like a kitten again. Next will be a pressure gauge and a donation to this forum. Thanks for all the help.

[dripley]

which ever gauge you go with it only needs to read to 30#. the higher you go on what pressure it reads the harder it is to get an accurate reading. glad everyhting is up and running. it is our pleasure to help you out. hang around here and you will pick up alot of useful info.

[Davy]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing about the gauges, 30 lbs is just right. Where does your fuel gauge connect to the fuel line, just before the fuel pump?

[dripley]

yes. look at post 15. that is the big line kit i installed from the filter cannister to the vp. a tapped push lock fitting and a needle valve. a few misc parts to connect the line ot the valve. it is working good for me. the plastic line i used is not so good and i am going to change it out for some differant tubing soon. bought the big line kit and needle valve at Vulcan performance.com. Eric is good people to deal with. the big line kit comes with a 90 to install on the pump and you can put it there instead of using the tee i used. the 90 has an outlet like the schrader valve that is stock on the truck. i plan to use that tap for a test gauge if needed in the future.

[Davy]

Okay, at first I couldn't tell exactly where that was, after clicking on the pic and enlarging it, I see it's hooked up between the filter and VP. I will look into getting a gauge real soon.