Stainless Steel Injector Bodies a Myth? Are you really getting New, or Remans?

[Smarty Support]

There is a common misconception that there are Bosch injector bodies available for the CR Cummins application made out of stainless steel. That is a myth. None of the Bosch injectors for this application are made of stainless steel. BBi INJECTOR Bodies have been offered in two different versions. The original body “look” of Big Bang Injectors had a darker exterior. Now they have a shinier look to them. Some say that they, along with injectors from elsewhere, are Stainless Steel. Fact is they are not made of Stainless Steel. The only difference between the first BBi Injectors and the new appearing Injectors is the coating that is used to prevent corrosion. They both have the the exact same body material. The darker bodies are Phosphated. The new lighter colored bodies are Silanized. Why the change? Well the coating has been changed to gain a bit better resistance to corrosion that you would get with the Silanized surface coating. This practice was brought about for engines with external injectors. This would have no effect on the Cummins engine whatsoever. The belief that these are Stainless Steel injectors for the common rail Cummins is a myth.

Also a lot of people getting injectors are under the impression that they are getting “New” injectors when in reality they are getting remanufactured injectors. Here is a FYI for you. Bosch remanned injector part #'s start with a 0986. New injectors start with 0445.

A lot of remans are being marketed as new injectors. True "NEW" injectors are scarce these days.

[Boostjunky]

So, is one to presume that any injectors ordered from BBI will be NEW (0445) injectors, or will they be REMAN (0986) injectors?

[Wild and Free]

I think I read some of his earlier posts and they do not use anything used, they start with brand new Bosch injectors and go from there.

[Boostjunky]

Ah, OK. Must have missed that, as I have read through some of the other posts made by BrianAtSmarty.I just wish that BBI had some larger injectors for the 04.5-07 trucks. Seems they are limited to a 700 HP rated injector at fill tilt, due to not being able to maintain quality control if attempting to go larger. The 03-04 sytle injectors have options for well beyond 1000 HP.

[dorkweed]

Ah, OK. Must have missed that, as I have read through some of the other posts made by BrianAtSmarty. I just wish that BBI had some larger injectors for the 04.5-07 trucks. Seems they are limited to a 700 HP rated injector at fill tilt, due to not being able to maintain quality control if attempting to go larger. The 03-04 sytle injectors have options for well beyond 1000 HP.

That; I believe, is due to the piston design.

[Boostjunky]

Well, yes, they are a different piston design. This I'm aware of. But it still doesn't directly answer the riddle of WHY they are unable to maintain quality control standards given the different spray angle.Just to avoid misconception, I'm not just pulling the "quality control" issue out of thin air. I'm quoting what their website advertisement states for the 04.5-06 injectors.My bigger curiosity is, what aspect of quality control suffers when going larger with the 124* spray angle injector, and why doesn't the 143* spray angle injector suffer from the same pitfall?

[dorkweed]

Well, yes, they are a different piston design. This I'm aware of. But it still doesn't directly answer the riddle of WHY they are unable to maintain quality control standards given the different spray angle. Just to avoid misconception, I'm not just pulling the "quality control" issue out of thin air. I'm quoting what their website advertisement states for the 04.5-06 injectors. My bigger curiosity is, what aspect of quality control suffers when going larger with the 125* spray angle injector, and why doesn't the 143* spray angle injector suffer from the same pitfall?

I would say again............to answer both of your questions............that it's due to piston design. AH64ID is more better to answer these questions than I am!!!

[Boostjunky]

I would say again............to answer both of your questions............that it's due to piston design. AH64ID is more better to answer these questions than I am!!!

As much as I appreciate your response, I respectfully disagree. Hear me out, and let's analyze this a little further. It just doesn't quite make sense to blame the "inability to maintain quality control standards" on the piston design. Especially when there are several other aftermarket injector companies offering injectors in sizes well beyond what BBI offers for the 04.5-06 piston design, and successfully. Granted, most of these trucks that run injectors that are so large are being used in competition, or generally used as "fun" trucks, rather than being used as an actual "truck". And I also suspect that the "quality" of these larger injector offerings would probably be considered horrible in BBI's eyes. But the fact remains, people do offer larger injectors for said piston design, and they do work for their intended purpose. On top of that, Exergy has now made it common practice to offer the 143° spray angle injectors (in practically any size your little heart desires, no less), built off of the Bosch Motorsport Nozzle, as a viable substitute for the standard 124° spray angle injectors for use in 04.5-06 piston designed trucks. Again, plenty of success stories with these offerings, too. And in light of Exergy's practice, I would like to pose yet another question, aimed directly at BBI. What is BBI's stance on using their 03-04 injectors (which are offered in various stages, rather than just 1 stage) on a truck that has the 04.5-06 design piston? So, can you still insist that piston design is the "quality control" issue that BBI refers to? Can you now see where I'm coming from with my question? I know that the 04.5-06 piston design is more prone to issues vs the 03-04 design. But obviously, people are using large injectors as well as different spray angles on them successfully. Especially now that proper tuning is in place (EFI Live). If I were BBI, and I had found that the piston design of the 04.5-06 trucks was the limiting factor in being able to make a larger injector, I would simply call it what it was (hypothetically speaking, a design limitation that is inherent in the 04.5-06 pistons). I wouldn't blame it on the inability to maintain "quality control". Clearly BBI takes great pride in their injectors and their ability to provide a great product. So, again, the question remains. And at this point, I would just assume BBI, or someone else that is equally qualified to answer the question, respond. What aspect of quality control suffers when trying to go larger? Is it an inconsistency in spray angle? Does it relate to fuel atomization (or the lack thereof)? Does it have to do with SAC vs VCO? Or is it simply that the hard/mechanical parts of the 124° angle injector design are incapable of maintaining long-term reliability when going past a certain point? As in, accelerated wear? I think these are legitimate questions, and I sincerely don't believe that the root of the issue is in the piston design. Again, I acknowledge the inherent weakness of the 04.5-06 piston design as compared to the 03-04, but I don't believe that to be the reason that BBI doesn't offer something bigger in the way of injectors.

[dorkweed]

BJ, wasn't meaning to type like an asshat, seeing as you took it that way.Read me out here before going off again....................I still think it "may" be a piston design issue. Maybe they don't wish to produce injectors that large due to the "blow-torch" effect that the narrower spray angle makes on the top of the ALUMINIUM pistons. The '04.5-'07's are the ones prone to piston failure/melting..........correct??? Don't you believe that could be due to the piston design??? Coupling the increased injector size with the timing and duration available to us by the electronic boxes (Smarty, etc,) with that piston design; IMHO, is a recipe for disaster for the CF types that mod trucks indiscriminately due to poor info and/or ignorance.Maybe they "choose" not to build injectors in that size purposely and just say it's QC. It's a cheap insurance policy for them not having to answer for melting pistons etc.

[AH64ID]

My understanding is the larger change in angle and hole size needed flow the fuel for more than 700hp does not maintain the quality standard that BBi has. Why? They would have to answer that, and it doesn't mean it cannot be done it just means they aren't happy enough with the results to put their name on it. I'll be changing my pistons out to the 03-04 style here shortly, and hoping to just put 03-04 50hp nozzles on my injectors, but ???

[flagmanruss]

Even though my current truck is not in this group, there is much good thought & discussion here. My thought is to remember the engine / truck makers are not concerned with making more power. They MUST be concerned about emissions, EPA & such disgusting subjects. Some changes harm efficiency but are (supposedly) necessary to meet EPA standards. The piston design we are discussing might just be one of these changes (my speculating)... and the injector makers may have figured this out though they could have been more forthright about why they do or do not offer certain products. Again this is very useful information. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

[AH64ID]

04.5-07 piston design is 100% emissions based, and is the weakest piston design in ISB history and was only used for those years and never in a QSB industrial model.