12v build

[rancherman]

Hey,  Is  there  any info  about   12v  mods...   a place or site that has   'well known' and proven  mods  for various power level increases?    I've checked out  several sites that sell the  stuff,  but  It  would be nice to  see what  'harmonizes'  with  each other!

 

We all know about  more fuel.....needs more air..........yada yada..

But  I'm getting ready to start on my 12v,  and   hopefully will be  'dusting' off the  credit card! 

 

I'm  hoping  to   buy a  known  'set of  mods'  that  work  very well with each other,  and  not have to deal with   'severe turbo lag, or  coal-train-on-fire  smoke...     I've   studied  ISX's  set up...  and  that appeals to me.  It basically  gives  everything to the engine,  and  DRIVER is  responsible for  how it's   managed.  However,   I  am probably not the only one who will be  wheeling this set up,  and  putting a  inexperienced  driver behind  that steering wheel  may not  be  too cool.....   

 

First thing  I'll do is  see  what is  still good  on my current  1997 12v.  (turbo)    If  it's  still serviceable,   It'll  go back to work.  If not,  well,  now is the time for   'upgrades'. 

 

I'm going  with a NV 5600 with  1 3/8th  input    and  valair clutch,    at least a  4 inch  turbo back  exhaust,   bhaf.      

After that,    This project is  going to be  a   'all in all out'  as far as  mods.   I plan  on  putting it all together as  a  complete package....  no  needing  this, or  that...  for the next year!  

Mntom also has  a  similar  rig?  (no doubt there are  thousands  of   12v's  running around with similar  power!

I'm  shooting for   mid 3 to  high  300's  @  stock  rpms.    

Geez,  this  has  been  close to 2 years  since  I bought  the  dumb  roller in Wyoming!    I am most definitely not getting any younger  either!

Thanks!  

 

[mopartechnician]

Get rid of fuel plate and adjust star wheel. Advance timing. Those are easy and free mods. Call Reb or Erick at browns diesel and tell them I sent ya, they make 12 valves go fast

Here is their ace of spades sand drag pickup. This is built with extra parts laying around the shop

http://tbilisitube.com/en/video/GcB66fKEa1I/Browns-Diesel-1110rwhp-and-FIRE

Edited March 31, 2014 by mopartechnician

[MnTom]

300 hp is actually pretty easy to achieve. All you need to do is bump the timing up a little (about 15*-16*), pull the fuel plate and grind it to a #100 (set it about 3/4 forward) if you want any kind fuel control (for other drivers), and put something like 300 injectors (RV275s with slightly larger holes) or 370s although the 370s may run a bit hot for a stock turbo and tune your AFC to suit what you have. Even with those mods you can put out a fair amount of smoke.

[rancherman]

Mntom,  Is  that  what you've done  to yours?

 

Mopartechician..     where is  Browns diesel?   website, or   local shop?

 

Thanks guys

[bjytech]

With what I have done to my truck I'm sitting right around 360HP and 800ft.lb of torque, only real upgraded part I'm running is my clutch since once I ground/moved my plate I could slip the stock clutch at will. Right now I'm running with no AFC but thats mainly because the diaphragm in it got a hole so I wasn't getting full fuel so I just pulled the arm out of the AFC so I could get full fuel again.

It doesn't say it in my sig but my plate is basically a #100 plate and I'm running the stock 215 injectors.

I also had a boost elbow on previously and removed it because it was building to much boost for the hx35 and even without it I can still hit 40psi easily with the wastegate working how it should.

Edited March 31, 2014 by bjytech

[mopartechnician]

Browns is out of california. Thats where I get all my parts for the pickups i work on. Thei website is brownsdiesel.com. They really dont have much on the site last time i checked but if you call and talk to them, they are extremly smart on what works and what doesnt.

[MnTom]

Mntom,  Is  that  what you've done  to yours?

 

Yep, other that a Dave Goerends transmission. Like I said, 350 or so hp is quite easy to get out of the 12v trucks.

[rancherman]

_{So,  at  what  power level  will   DV  mods  be required?     above  ~500?}

[MnTom]

_{So,  at  what  power level  will   DV  mods  be required?     above  ~500?}

I would say above that. I worked on one that had most everything mine does plus laser cuts and timing about 21*. It also had the wrong turbo on it (he wanted a work truck and somebody put a pulling truck turbo on). He could black out ANY road you wanted without much problem. I put the stock DVs back in and he supplied a different turbo. I also dropped the timing back to about 15*. He needed to do something with the truck and I got it together and didn't have time to test drive it or tune the AFC (it was all screwed up), but he said he hooked to his trailer and grossed about 30K and said it pulled way better than before! Stick with the stock DVs and you will be fine.

[YabbaDoo]

DV's??

[mopartechnician]

Delivery valves

[YabbaDoo]

_{Thank you}  

[rancherman]

I  figured   there  had to be   a   point  where    larger  Dv's     come into play..      Also  glad  to  see   it's  way above    where  I'm  wanting  to be

 

Oh hey,   on my list  of  stuff to consider,   I've  been looking at Pacbrake's    turbo elbow...       It's  supposed to  flow  better than  stock,   and will be  already set up for  my larger   down pipe.      Along  with   better flow,   lower  egt,       But,   before  I   throw that  into the  list,...  I need to  see if my  stock turbo  is  alive.

So,  MnTom,     is  my stock turbo   adequate.. (even if it's  ok bearing and seal wise)   or  should  I be looking  at   'upgrades' here?

 

ISX,    jump in here too!

[MnTom]

Your HX35 turbo will support 350 to 400 HP without too much problem. You want to go higher, you need more air. Like I said, a decent set of injectors, a reground fuel plate (since there will be other drivers), timing bumped up, and tuning the AFC will get you right where you want to be and the only thing to buy are the injectors. You really don't need to change anything on the intake (other than putting a BHAF on) or the exhaust to do what you want.

[ISX]

My brother despises cummins to no end and has told me my truck is the biggest POS on the planet.  He said it smokes too much, the EGT's are out of control, everything that has 6.0 powerstroke doesn't do.  I had to explain to him that his powerstroke has a computer and lots of control, whereas mine has 0 control, it's all in your foot.  I am the only one who can drive it.  I will never go back, I love 100% control, but it does take a LOT of attention to understand it.  Once you understand everything, it is easyyyyy to drive.  But yeah, thats probably how it will go with anyone else if you take the fuel plate and afc out.  One or the other is doable.  

 

However...I would take the fuel plate out and play with the AFC and see if you can get to a point where the EGT's aren't out of control as much as you can.  Play with the turbo boost, etc...   If all else fails and you cannot get it under control, put the fuel plate back in and grind a little each time until you are satisfied.  

 

Timing is debatable but I'll explain some things and you can decide for yourself.  Advancing the timing makes it start harder.  If it is a tight engine then it isn't much of a problem, but a worn out engine might have a harder time in the winter.  It will still start but might make you frown.  The low RPM required for shifting a manual requires retarded timing.  The more you advance it, the more power down low you lose.  I advanced mine and when I went back I couldn't believe the power I had lost.  Towing heavy loads requires higher RPM, higher RPM is more efficient with more advanced timing.  If you are at 2000RPM towing 10k+, your truck would love to be at 17*.  Because it's static, you have to use your own views on priorities to determine the best spot.  I put mine at 13.5 because I hated losing low end power and wanted it to start good in the winter.  Since I think you tow and being arkansas doesn't see that much winter, I would put it at 15 so you don't lose too much low end being a manual.  

[MnTom]

You may get by just fine without a plate, but like ISX said, not everybody could drive it. The way mine is set up is just like I told you before. I have a fair amount of power plus the torque to do pull about anything I could hook to. Far as timing, don't go crazy, keep it at 16* or s max and you won't have a problem. My truck does not even get plugged it until the temp goes below zero and it starts fine. Here is what increasing the timing will do:

    Decrease exhaust temperature
        Increase cylinder temperatures/pressures
        Increase fuel economy (yes, economy is better)
        Increase your output of NOx (a pollutant)
        Decrease your output of Hydrocarbons (a pollutant)
        Increase the amount of black smoke at peak torque

Take a look at this page for more reading about timing: http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/timing.htm

[rancherman]

Thanks  guys!

Yah,   I'll have to actually  get it  running and  'play'  with the tuning for  a bit..  My  main  thing right now is  the   'parts'  chase.    (what I need besides  stock  components)    

 

OH,  btw,   I've read a lot of  guys  talking about the  drone of  non muffled   straight pipe,  even  full length ones.    Is this  ONLY  because of the lack of muffler,  or  perhaps  the  thinness  of  the aftermarket   tubing?    I'm thinking  that  might  contribute...

 

Oh,  ISX<    I'm in Nebraska!...  just  a tad  colder than  Arkansas..  LOL,     I'll  play  with timing... somewhere  between  14-17.   Might as well start with  MnToms'   16*    (If she starts  up 'there'...  it'll  start  here!)

Thanks  for the    range of  timing,  and  what  can be expected.

 

I've never even heard this  engine run...  I'll probably do a  quick  compression test,  just  to see  what's  what.    If  within spec, power wash it  up,   and  fix  any  apparent  leaks.      Adjust the valves, and I'll   do the  crank seals, front and back.  

 

The first thing  I looked at  when I bought this  rolled  truck,  was  the  cover on the  ip.    It still had  the  anti tamper  screw in the cover...  and  it  still has  coolant.  (no leaks  from  the  accident.)

 

Thanks  for the  advice....  I  just  needed    confirmation  on    what's needed,  so  I don't go and  buy a bunch of   unnecessary  stuff...

[MnTom]

One other thing to do since the P-pump is virgin is to check and tab the KDP. 2 1/2  hours start to finish in the truck with hand tools. This truck didn't stop upside down did it? That gets real hard on the engine real quick if it was still running.

Oh, IF you didn't want injectors right away and did everything I did minus injectors it would put you at about 300HP. Mine was 299 hp and I can't remember the tq, but the injectors are an easy swap any time and mine gave me 66 hp and put my tq at 833#. To pull the injectors just pull the fuel lines (keep them bundled), pull the return line, cut a piece of 3/4" tubing (PVC, electrical conduit, etc.) 1 7/8" long. Slip the tubing over an injector and remove a wheel nut. Take the wheel nut and screw it on to the injector (yes, it does fit). Tighten the nut and it will pop the injector right out!

[rancherman]

Ya know,  I never  asked the kid  how  it landed,  or how long it ran afterward...

I do remember him  saying he drove it for about a week afterward,   until he found another  ride.    He  was tired  of  not having  glass, and crawling in and out of the rear window, and it was  getting  cold  in eastern Colorado!   He  already found  a  cab and box  when I came along.    (I got  both in the  sale).

 

Oil  sumps  don't work worth a dang  when  inverted do they!!.......  geez,   I better pull the pan  and  pop  a  main or two,  and  a couple of rod caps...   sheesh.

[rancherman]

All this info is  great  guys!    I've read  thousands  of  posts,  in here, and  everywhere about    ONE  particular  'upgrade'..   which  sometimes caused   negative  impacts  elsewhere... hence their   post in the first place.        Kinda  typical  of   forums....  " posts  are for  problems"  not so much  "Oh man,  this works  sweet!,  Here's  what I did"    ...  But,  again,   once a person  posts  something HE is happy with,  10 guys  will jump on him like a  dog,  sayin  things like  'gee,  why did you do that?  or, " this is better"...  ugg..     I don't want to re invent the  mousetrap..  just  copy  a  good combination!   

 

I remember  my  Mopar  Direct Connection   'bible'  from  years ago,  which  gave  explicit  instructions/parts reqd.    on how to 'build'  various  levels  of  performance...   

 

oh,    should I plan on  the  upgraded  hydraulics for  the clutch  right away?   I've only had  stock  clutches,  and  don't know  how well they respond to  the  upgraded  pressure plate