VP44 PSG fuel cooler ideas

[KATOOM]

I will add to this that within my constant pursuit to understand what’s going on with the VP and trying to alleviate heat soak as much as possible, Without another gauge to tell me what the fuel temps are, I have this habit of opening the hood during various drives and ambient temperature driving conditions and placing my hand on the top of the PSG to see how hot it is.  Generally after short trips its only warm to the touch.  After coming back 15-20 minutes later its much hotter.  With longer drives its temp is considerable hotter but still tolerable to hold my hand on it.  And again, after coming back 15-20 minutes later, its even hotter yet.

 

During triple digit weather it can get pretty darned hot to the touch and after this last towing experience in the mountains when I reached my destination I quickly popped the hood and touched the VP and.....it was HOT.  How hot?.....obviously I'm not sure since I have no gauge to check with but I can say that I wouldn’t have wanted to hold my hand on it for more than a couple seconds at most.  So with that crude measurement, I'd say it was well above the 160* range.

Edited August 6, 2014 by KATOOM

[Mopar1973Man]

The outer shell is not true temperature. The bottom plate towards the fuel is actual temperature being the PSG is mounted to the fuel side. This is why any top mounted devices tend to be poor at best because transferring heat by air gap is slow. Aluminum, circuit board, air gap, plastic cover, aluminum cover again.

 

[KATOOM]

With that info Mike, do you have a tool for meansuring fuel temps and comparing the outlet return line temperature in relation to the PSG cover temp?

[Mopar1973Man]

Edge Juice or Quadzilla adrenaline can measure fuel temps. As for measuring inlet and outlet temps I don't have any means too. Now I bet if someone really wanted to they could contact Eric @ Vulcan Performance and find some plumbing pieces for sensors to be places in the inlet and outlet of the VP44.

 

On second thought I do have access to a infrared temp gun...

[Yankneck696]

I see your pretty picture & still will not admit I am wrong.... Incorrect, but not wrong..... LOL

Hey Mike, aren't you supposed to be sweating in the dirt at work, or are you playing hookey?

 

Ed

[KATOOM]

On second thought I do have access to a infrared temp gun...

 

Well come on then.....  Lets see some numbers.

[TFaoro]

My cooler was located on the supply side to the VP. It ran from the LP up front to the cooler, back to the VP, then the rest was normal.

[Mopar1973Man]

Well come on then.....  Lets see some numbers.

 

Well since the diesel truck is out I might take it to work tomorrow and do some sampling of numbers for the site.

[Mopar1973Man]

I see your pretty picture & still will not admit I am wrong.... Incorrect, but not wrong..... LOL

Hey Mike, aren't you supposed to be sweating in the dirt at work, or are you playing hookey?

 

Ed

 

Took a day off to get my ears lowered and take care of business stuff for the web site here.

[KATOOM]

I never liked getting those things lowered.

 

Cant wait to see what temperature numbers you come up with.  And do be careful when pointing that laser because I understand its very easy to skew the reading with other surrounding hot items being so close.

[rancherman]

Just  another  thought,   is it  ALWAYS  heat that's  causing problems??  Where's the proof  that it's not?   

  The  impact  vibrations   within  any  plunger pump  has  to be  insane.     When you hold your hand on a running engines'    injector line,   it  sure  'snaps' in your hand..  well, multiply that  times  6  and  anything  electrical  mounted directly,  no matter how  'isolated' ,  surely is  affected. 

heat, vibration, dirt...   all  foes  in the electronic world.

 

Katoom,  how can you think  a cooler is needed,  especially when you don't even know  what  temps  your fuel is in the first place? 

[Mopar1973Man]

Here is food for thought... How many times have you seen a P0168 code (VP44 Over heat code) on the any of the Dodge Cummins forums?

 

Here is a search for it...

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=P0168&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[KATOOM]

Just  another  thought,   is it  ALWAYS  heat that's  causing problems??  Where's the proof  that it's not?   

  The  impact  vibrations   within  any  plunger pump  has  to be  insane.     When you hold your hand on a running engines'    injector line,   it  sure  'snaps' in your hand..  well, multiply that  times  6  and  anything  electrical  mounted directly,  no matter how  'isolated' ,  surely is  affected. 

heat, vibration, dirt...   all  foes  in the electronic world.

 

Katoom,  how can you think  a cooler is needed,  especially when you don't even know  what  temps  your fuel is in the first place? 

 

Good points rancher and a valid rebuttal about not really knowing the fuel temps in the first place.  There is two fuel temp codes and I'm understanding that if there isnt any code then it may take a superior scan tool to read them, like at the dealer.  All I can say to that is the information I've gained so far are from those who have taken temperature readings with laser temp gauges and those who have Edge modules which are capable of monitoring fuel temps.  And I know its terribly crude but my "hand on the PSG" test has to be reasonably in line with other drivetrain components I can compare.  Touch the engine thermostat and you know its close to what the dash says.  Touch oil filter and you can see the differences in temp.  Since I have gauges on the differential and tranny too, I can use their running temps in comparison by how hot or cool they are.  If its too hot to touch for mere seconds then its well over 150*.  Yes, there’s no substitute for a gauge but at this moment I dont have one and I have to rely on others (like what Mike finds out) to understand what’s happening in regards to fuel temps.

Edited August 7, 2014 by KATOOM

[Mopar1973Man]

Here is what I got. Fired up this morning drove 14 miles to work. Parked the truck talked with the Boss man (Lindy) for about 10 minutes grab the IR gun. Measured about 140*F case temp. Fired up the engine in under 60 seconds the case dropped to 75*F or so. The overflow valve took a few seconds longer to drop the temp but it was washing the heat out rapidly. Yes I had the IR gun very close to the fitting and case. Also idle pressure currently is 16.5 PSI.

 

Also the VP44 PSG electronics can with stand a lot of heat in storage (non-running) but if I can flush the heat out in under 60 seconds I'm not worried on bit.

[KATOOM]

How hot was it when you first got there?  Meaning the running temps of the VP instead of 10 min after shutdown.  Heat soak is bound to get things toasty.  Also, what was the outside temperature?

 

On a side note.....do you think it would be worth the effort on installing insulation wrap on the fuel line length around the engine area and also maybe even placing an insulation heat barrier between the hot engine and the VP?  Most install a heat shield between the air filter and the turbo so I would think the running temp of the engine "could" radiate the VP.....?  Kinda along the same lines as what I found out about my exhaust pipe heating up my transmission so I installed a heat blanket and reduced tranny temps by around 30*-40*.

[Mopar1973Man]

As long as you fuel tank is 1/2 or better it will take quite a long time to heat the fuel. I'm going to do another pass of heat test tomorrow. I had a short day at work being there was a lack of parts so I was sent home early. I wanted to to do a afternoon run at the heat of the day. Morning run was still quite cool out in the morning. So hang in there another go is happening tomorrow.

[rancherman]

Mike,  for giggles next time,    throw that  gun  at the  tank itself,  or  maybe  the  filter intake side  so  you can see the  gain in  T   between  the  filter and  overflow.. 

 

Just a shot in the dark here,  but  wouldn't the  'cooler' be  better placed  on the   return side..  so  we are not  building  a ton of  heat  within the  tank in the first place?

 

a little   powersteering   type  radiator  in the 'wind'    should do the trick.

[KATOOM]

I'd love to be able to install a device called a "fuel chiller" which merely ties into the A/C refrigerant, running a fuel line through a housing cooled by the A/C compressor.  The only problem being that it wouldn’t be cheap or easy to reroute the A/C lines.  But the device supposedly works amazingly.

 

I’m just anxious to see what Mike comes up with.  I really need to invest in a laser thermometer…..

[Mopar1973Man]

Well I've gotta work in the morning... Hang in there...

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok another test run...

 

This is after a run to town and left idling when I returned.

 

Outside Temperature: 98*F

 

Fuel tank Temperature: 85*F

AirDog Filter Temperature: 85*F

Stock Filter Housing Temperature: 98*F

VP44 Inlet: 101*F

VP44 Overflow: 130*F

VP44 Case: 130*F

 

After 10 minutes of being shut off...

 

VP44 case 130*F.

 

I'll try again tomorrow...