..feels like I'm getting kicked in kisser

[rancherman]

because they negate each other.

 

2 Cycle oil is a cetane reducer

PS is a cetane booster

 

2 Cycle oil is a lubricity enhancer (low HFRR)

PS is more of a injector cleaner (high HFRR)

 

So after adding both you get basically nothing.

Actually..  you gain  a lot.

 

You get   the  benefit of  the   additive  for  keeping the fuel unclouded,   and  the   'RETURN TO  ABOUT  NORMAL'   hfrr.      

 

I've never seen  my fuel   cloud up  any  faster   with  the  2 stroke.   In fact,  I'll  put a little more  in the winter time  (closer to  1.5- 2.0  oz per gallon)  for   negating the  ill effects of   PS!

[rancherman]

So I understand that they negate each other in both cetane and how well it lubes, but if it prevents gelling I don't see why you wouldn't do it? Would the 2 stroke make the fuel gel? Our snowmobile oil flows pretty well even down at -25F. 

I guess what I'm saying is if I were to add PS to prevent gelling I know it lowers the HFRR... Well if I add 2 stroke it pulls the HFRR back up to 'normal' level and the tank still doesn't gel I consider that a win. Am I way off here??

bullseye.

[TFaoro]

Actually look at the bottle most 2 cycle oil has a pour point of at least -40*F. Then snowmobile 2 cycle oil has pour point of at least -50*F so if normal #2 winterized diesel is round -20*F then 2 cycle oil will add but not sure how much... Might read up on PPD (Pour Point Depressants) and some of chemicals.

Mike you never fully answered my hypothesis....

[Mopar1973Man]

Here is the issue most PPD (pour point depressants) are solvent based chemicals so yes adding oil is going to help over come it to a point kind of like having diesel fuel in your oil.

 

I don't suggest adding much over 1 oz per gallon because as the fuel cools the fuel gets thicker and put more strain on the VP44. I see Rancherman is at 1.5 to 2 ounces that would make me squirm. Being that you want to keep roughly 2 to 5 cSt of fuel viscosity and 2 cycle oil can be upwards of 40 cSt.

 

TFaoro I also believe if you add enough 2 cycle oil you could over come the pour point / cloud point issues but at what point does the fuel become to thick to properly pump and atomize in cold weather? Hence what was happening to waste oil burning people trying to burn high volumes and wiping out the pump. (Breaking the rotor free).

[rancherman]

I'm   going  stronger  with   1.5-2.0  oz    when  I KNOW  I'm  running  a  50/50 blend +  an additive    (I  actually  mixed it myself)   I have  fuel  tanks   of  straight  #1,  and   straight #2.     When I fill,  I'll  kinda look ahead at the  next weeks  forecast, and  mix accordingly.

 

 

The  Jeep  seems to really like it,     my  winter time   mpgs  is  only off  1 or 2 mpg   from this  Fall.    I account most of  this  from   the warm-up period,  stiff  drivetrain, tires etc.

    The only thing I worry about   running   any amount of 2 stroke in the Jeep is  it  has  a  cat converter.  (for now)

[Mopar1973Man]

Keep use posted on any effects it might have on that cat... I'm very curious of the results.

[TFaoro]

So mixing them is OK just don't add too much 2 stroke? I have to add my own PS (The white bottle) just to keep my fuel from gelling. Adding the 2 stroke in normal ratios brings the lubricating properties back to the ulsd numbers and I should be good right?

[Mopar1973Man]

I really have a head scratcher there. Why is it here in Central Idaho in the middle of nowhere the fuel is properly treated. But places like Colorado and Nebraska fuels are willy nilly and toss in a truck and gelling issues are more common?

 

To this day since I started 2 cycle oil way back 2006 I've not used any anti-gel product ever! Yes. I'm picky of my fuel sources and make sure to talk to the station owners and keep up to date on what happening. I just think that's totally weird...

[TFaoro]

I've spoken with managers at multiple stations and all I get is "The truckers come and dump it. We don't add anything to it." Now my station back home in Penrose Colorado I know puts additive in (I worked there for a couple summers and Christmas brakes.) It comes in a red 55 gallon drum, and it gets poured in whenever a delivery is made. I guess these guys in Denver just can't do that.

[rancherman]

SEE??!!??  ^^^^

 

I've  said  many times!   'here'  is  a crap shoot  on what is getting  pumped into  our  tanks.  

Perhaps  it's  my location,   I right on the  edge of    the  arctic circle  and   where the  southern plains  meets!  lol

[rancherman]

I really have a head scratcher there. Why is it here in Central Idaho in the middle of nowhere the fuel is properly treated. But places like Colorado and Nebraska fuels are willy nilly and toss in a truck and gelling issues are more common?

 

To this day since I started 2 cycle oil way back 2006 I've not used any anti-gel product ever! Yes. I'm picky of my fuel sources and make sure to talk to the station owners and keep up to date on what happening. I just think that's totally weird...

Honestly  Mike,    we  (locals with problems...fuel wise)    are  certain   because  we are  podunks  in  the Midwest,   we don't deserve  the  good  stuff.  and    when all our  fuel comes  from the  same  terminal,   I'd bet  some  pipeline manager  is   cackling maniacally   as  he  sends  up  his  reject  crap  from  the refinery!  

who knows!

[diesel4life]

I find it very odd station owners have to treat the fuel as its going into the ground. Seems like this opens the door for a HUGE variance in fuel quality. I hung iron for 13 years for an outfit that also owned 2 gas stations. Over the years we did quite a bit of work around the gas stations, and as my interest in diesel piqued I would occasionally ask fuel related questions. Ron (the owner) is VERY picky about his fuels (owns a pretty substantial fleet of construction equipment and tractor trailers) and he never treated his fuel for cold weather properties. Said this was done at the terminal long before it ever reached the end destination. He did check for water at EVERY delivery and also did preventative biocide treatment. As I am sitting here I'm really racking my brain trying to remember who his supplier is, and as usual I'm coming up short.

[Mopar1973Man]

Funny part is all of Idaho fuel comes from Utah or over in Washington. Everything bit of gasoline and diesel is trucked into the state of Idaho. I understand why prices are higher. Why is that quality is better? We get the same cold weather like everyone else does. New Meadows proper can get down right cold at times. (Minus 20 to 25*F) How do all the truckers (log trucks) and freight trucks survive the long trek into the back country without gelling up? I know these guys don't carry fuel additive products. We don't have trucks sitting along the highways gelled up.

 

Still in all like some of station have the same system "Oh, the trucks just come and dump the product." But then there places like I've shown the picture of the barrel of pour point depressant. So keep this stuff around for treating the tank.

[Mopar1973Man]

Funny part is all of Idaho fuel comes from Utah or over in Washington. Everything bit of gasoline and diesel is trucked into the state of Idaho. I understand why prices are higher. Why is that quality is better? We get the same cold weather like everyone else does. New Meadows proper can get down right cold at times. (Minus 20 to 25*F) How do all the truckers (log trucks) and freight trucks survive the long trek into the back country without gelling up? I know these guys don't carry fuel additive products. We don't have trucks sitting along the highways gelled up.

 

Still in all like some of station have the same system "Oh, the trucks just come and dump the product." But then there places like I've shown the picture of the barrel of pour point depressant. So keep this stuff around for treating the tank.