Hi all,

While changing my oil today I checked up on my turbo health. It has had a slight internal oil leak since I got it as you can see. So I decided to check for play in the shaft and it has a little bit. Nothing major, no metal shavings in there, but it has some play. How long can I keep running this thing? Truck is mainly just a DD right now. Also can it be rebuilt or does it have to be replaced? Can anyone recommend a rebuild kit or good a replacement turbo? I don't plan to make crazy power so I don't necessarily want to upgrade unless someone has a really compelling reason. It is for the truck in my sig.

I am also curious about this.

Clearly that is some very fine metal wear and it was caught on my magnetic drain plug from Geno's. Is it anything to be concerned about?

Thanks for the encouragement! now I'm just a little hung up on if i actually need to rebuild it or not...Im pretty sure it leaks oil, but I'm not totally sure. But i guess it would be a good place to start looking for the cause of the metal wear?

Kinda sounds like your just a little apprehensive about diving into this. I was too. You can probably find a video on turbo rebuild. In fact you could probably do a video for this site. Don't know about that for sure, gotta ask someone smarter than me!

I am definitely a little apprehensive, but I just got off the phone with Fred at DAP. I ordered their rebuild kit and exhaust housing gasket and oil drain gasket. He said based on what I told him about the turbo the metal in the oil is probably from the turbo bearings. Hopefully he is right. Anyway he was very helpful and helped me get everything I need. All total with 2nd day shipping was $99.51. Anyone that has tips on rebuilding a turbo please post them!

Thanks!

Here is the Holset Service manual for you.

HX30_32_35_38_40_GW-1.pdf

 

The only thing I ask is would you document your rebuild with lots of pictures. I would love to have a turbo rebuild article produced for the site.

The turbo bearings are brass, so I don't think it would be from them.

Thank you all for the info and help so far! And thanks for the manual! I will do my best to document the rebuild for you guys. If nothing else there will be a ton of pictures! Should get it done next week sometime as the parts are scheduled to show up on Monday. 

Do any of you guys know if i need to get this turbo balanced during the rebuild? I honestly don't even know what that entails, but the manual mentioned it. Also, Fred at DAP mentioned it, but he said I shouldn't need to...

It would be best, but you can get away without doing it.  Just mark the shaft/wheel/nut orientation and put everything back how it was.

Also, why do you suspect the turbo needs rebuilt.  If you idle a lot, there's going to be oil in the compressor housing... simple as that.  You can check the intercooler too, if there's a bit in there, then I can see needing to rebuild the turbo.

I used to idle my engine a considerable amount for different reasons, and the compressor always had oil on it, there was even a bit of oil in the intake tube.  Now that I don't need to idle it, there aren't even traces of oil.

Just now, Cowboy said:

It would be best, but you can get away without doing it.  Just mark the shaft/wheel/nut orientation and put everything back how it was.

Also, why do you suspect the turbo needs rebuilt.  If you idle a lot, there's going to be oil in the compressor housing... simple as that.  You can check the intercooler too, if there's a bit in there, then I can see needing to rebuild the turbo.

I used to idle my engine a considerable amount for different reasons, and the compressor always had oil on it, there was even a bit of oil in the intake tube.  Now that I don't need to idle it, there aren't even traces of oil.

I was going by the picture of the turbo I posted at the beginning of this thread...I thought that much oil indicated the seals inside were going bad...I have wiped that clean(as much as possible) before and it always comes back. I really don't think I let the truck idle that much. Its a daily driver not a work truck. I do like to let it warm up before driving when its cold, but only about 10 mins, often times less. Also there is some play in the shaft. Im certainly not an expert, and I don't have a dial indicator, but I think its probably a little more than it should be. I am also hoping that it is the source of the wear metal on the drain plug...either that or that it was just in the pan and was collected on due to the addition of the magnetic drain plug. Also, the oil passed over the plug as it was draining because it was too hot for me to get the plug all the way out. So that may also have helped collect that metal. Anyway, if anyone thinks I am wasting time/money by rebuilding, then please say so :-) I thought I was doing whats best...

5 hours ago, Cowboy said:

It would be best, but you can get away without doing it.  Just mark the shaft/wheel/nut orientation and put everything back how it was.

Also, why do you suspect the turbo needs rebuilt.  If you idle a lot, there's going to be oil in the compressor housing... simple as that.  You can check the intercooler too, if there's a bit in there, then I can see needing to rebuild the turbo.

I used to idle my engine a considerable amount for different reasons, and the compressor always had oil on it, there was even a bit of oil in the intake tube.  Now that I don't need to idle it, there aren't even traces of oil.

The best way is using a good torque wrench but yes you can use the index and nut turn method too. 

 

As far as the turbo leaking oil due to idling I've never seen it happen unless the exhaust seal was shot forcing the exhaust pressure to enter the CHRA. It's still baffling for sure.

17 minutes ago, Vais01 said:

The best way is using a good torque wrench but yes you can use the index and nut turn method too. 

 

As far as the turbo leaking oil due to idling I've never seen it happen unless the exhaust seal was shot forcing the exhaust pressure to enter the CHRA. It's still baffling for sure.

Thanks for the input. Does the nut have to be in the same orientation too? or just the compressor wheel and shaft? Is the exhaust seal your talking about in the turbo? is that something ill be replacing during the rebuild?

I will be rechecking the shaft play in morning and taking a video to post for you all to see, as well as checking the hot side of the intercooler boot for oil. Those to things are going to be the deciding factors as to wether or not I do the rebuild. 

8 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Thanks for the input. Does the nut have to be in the same orientation too? or just the compressor wheel and shaft? Is the exhaust seal your talking about in the turbo? is that something ill be replacing during the rebuild?

I will be rechecking the shaft play in morning and taking a video to post for you all to see, as well as checking the hot side of the intercooler boot for oil. Those to things are going to be the deciding factors as to wether or not I do the rebuild. 

The nut should be in the same orientation but it could be off a little.

 

Yes the exhaust seal is in the turbo's CHRA (center section). When you rebuild use the Holset manual and follow the instructions and you should be fine. Also a K&N will create that residue so I say check shaft play and clean the compressor wheel and housing first then drive it around for a few weeks and have another look. 

 

Also factory oil filters are 30 micron absolute meaning they will capture anything 30 micron and higher 99% of the time. If you want better run a Donaldson oil filter that is rated at 15 micron absolute. Personally I run a Baldwin dual flow that is rated at 20 micron absolute and 4 micron absolute on the internal bypass (secondary filter). 

1 minute ago, Vais01 said:

The nut should be in the same orientation but it could be off a little.

 

Yes the exhaust seal is in the turbo's CHRA (center section). When you rebuild use the Holset manual and follow the instructions and you should be fine. Also a K&N will create that residue so I say check shaft play and clean the compressor wheel and housing first then drive it around for a few weeks and have another look. 

 

Also factory oil filters are 30 micron absolute meaning they will capture anything 30 micron and higher 99% of the time. If you want better run a Donaldson oil filter that is rated at 15 micron absolute. Personally I run a Baldwin dual flow that is rated at 20 micron absolute and 4 micron absolute on the internal bypass (secondary filter). 

Thanks again for the tips on rebuilding and about the oil filter, Ill have to check into that. I did a lot of research before deciding on the Fleetguard, but of course I'm open to change if theres something better to be had. How exactly does the internal bypass filter work? Is the baldwin you run better than the donaldson since the secondary is 4 micron?

As far as deciding on the rebuild goes, the BHAF has been on for the last 3000 miles. I have cleaned up the housing before and the oil comes back. Thats what made me think it must leak pretty good. Now I couldn't clean it super good, I didnt take it off the truck or take it apart, but I wiped it out and cleaned it up. The oil always comes back. I figured I will base my decision on 1) if there is oil in the hot side of the intercooler, 2) if there is too much shaft play one way or the other. Ill post back in about 12 hours when I get those two things checked out and I can upload a vid and some pics :-)

2 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Thanks again for the tips on rebuilding and about the oil filter, Ill have to check into that. I did a lot of research before deciding on the Fleetguard, but of course I'm open to change if theres something better to be had. How exactly does the internal bypass filter work? Is the baldwin you run better than the donaldson since the secondary is 4 micron?

As far as deciding on the rebuild goes, the BHAF has been on for the last 3000 miles. I have cleaned up the housing before and the oil comes back. Thats what made me think it must leak pretty good. Now I couldn't clean it super good, I didnt take it off the truck or take it apart, but I wiped it out and cleaned it up. The oil always comes back. I figured I will base my decision on 1) if there is oil in the hot side of the intercooler, 2) if there is too much shaft play one way or the other. Ill post back in about 12 hours when I get those two things checked out and I can upload a vid and some pics :-)

Your welcome on the info.

The Baldwin is unique but many stay away from them because they normally are on refrigeration engines. I've called Baldwin and Fleetguard as they both produce similar filters and they are both okay to use. The Baldwin is a good filter and much cheaper than the Fleetguard Venturi Flow filter plus I can get them locally for a good price. Only a small percentage of the oil goes through the bypass section. The Fleetguard works in a similar way but the bypass is a 2 micron stack of media. The Baldwin is a more conventional bypass element. The Donaldson is a great filter with very good flow ratings and it's a 15 micron absolute vs the venturi flow or bypass type that only filters a percentage of the lube oil. 

2 minutes ago, Vais01 said:

Your welcome on the info.

The Baldwin is unique but many stay away from them because they normally are on refrigeration engines. I've called Baldwin and Fleetguard as they both produce similar filters and they are both okay to use. The Baldwin is a good filter and much cheaper than the Fleetguard Venturi Flow filter plus I can get them locally for a good price. Only a small percentage of the oil goes through the bypass section. The Fleetguard works in a similar way but the bypass is a 2 micron stack of media. The Baldwin is a more conventional bypass element. The Donaldson is a great filter with very good flow ratings and it's a 15 micron absolute vs the venturi flow or bypass type that only filters a percentage of the lube oil. 

Is the donaldson filter you are talking about a specific part number? or will if i find it if i search for a donaldson filter for 01 cummins?

4 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Is the donaldson filter you are talking about a specific part number? or will if i find it if i search for a donaldson filter for 01 cummins?

It is specific you should be able to search it and it will give you optional filters below when you select the filter.

About the nuts orientation, Vias is correct, a torque wrench would be best.  I forgot the newer HX35's have the 12p nut, which means all the parts are balanced individually.

Also made these really quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO3LsDZmXHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVuToQRhQ1k

 

Edited December 24, 20159 yr by Cowboy

Wow thank you for making those!

I just got done checking things out and taking pics and a vid. My problem is its really hard for me to tell if the wheel is rubbing or not....I tried pushing on it and it does get a little tight, like its rubbing, but Im guessing that is just because Im pushing the shaft so its cocked in the bearings. At the same time though, the oil around the blades kind of looks like its been drug by the blades so I'm not sure. Hopefully you can see what I mean in the vid and pics. 

Here is the first, this is from the aluminum pipe that comes off the turbo, not sure what thats called?

Next up, inside that pipe

The intercooler end,

And the intercooler pipe.

And my video.

http://vid428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/leathermaneod/IMG_0467_zpset6lchgr.mp4

Sorry some of it is hard to hear, its just me talking anyway lol. Im going to go and try to make a better one to show the blades and wether or not they touch.

I would take the time and get some mineral spirits and wash the system out good. I'm sure it will blacken the mineral spirits rocking the intercooler back and forth. I would pull the turbo and wash the turbo since your going to be rebuilding it.

Well based on all that do you think the turbo needs rebuilt? I have had a lot of people telling me not to rebuild it unless it really needs it...so thats what Im trying to figure out...and it doesnt look wet in the intercooler pipe at all...

Edited December 24, 20159 yr by leathermaneod