Well I thought the truck was running good... It sat last night and most of today and I went to start her and she fired first crank but idle extremely erratic and had a nasty lope and unloaded a mass cloud of white smoke... New injectors went in a week and a half ago and all seemed well until the lift pump failed. I'm thinking the LP took the VP too. Fuel pressure went straight to 20 psi so that's not a issue. Ran the key trick and got P1693 and then -------- and then P Done. checked for codes and found nothing. 

13 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Another way to buy an OBDLink diagnostic tool you can use it on your phone. 

http://www.obdlink.com/

I have a WiFi version for my iPhone. It don’t pick up any codes either.

10 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

I have a WiFi version for my iPhone. It don’t pick up any codes either.

Most likely there are no codes to be picked up.

4 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Most likely there are no codes to be picked up.

Any idea why there’s a 1693 on the dash then?

A little trick to try. Pull the coolant sensor and trip a coolant code. Then plug it back in and check the codes again. I've seen this rarely where there is a pending code but the dash show something there but it like the ECM/PCM don't want to spit it out. 

5 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

A little trick to try. Pull the coolant sensor and trip a coolant code. Then plug it back in and check the codes again. I've seen this rarely where there is a pending code but the dash show something there but it like the ECM/PCM don't want to spit it out. 

Ok I’ll try that! 

5 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

A little trick to try. Pull the coolant sensor and trip a coolant code. Then plug it back in and check the codes again. I've seen this rarely where there is a pending code but the dash show something there but it like the ECM/PCM don't want to spit it out. 

Did that and got one code. P0118 Coolant temp sensor voltage to high. Cleared code but 1693 is still there. 

Using a Bosh code reader available at Orileys.  There is a bit of a trick to getting the whole picture.  You have to tell the scanner to pull codes from both OBDII and something else (I don't recall the scanner verbiage).  Basically if it doesn't pull the ECM data you only get the P1693.  Same goes for clearing codes.  You have to clear both the OBDII and the ECM or the P1693 will return.  You can verify you are getting ECM codes by setting a water in fuel code by pulling the connector and briefly shorting the harness.  It does not have to be active for the reader to pick it up.  In my experience the ECM usually has WIF, or lift pump circuit out of range.

Is the following another symptom of bad vp? It only runs bad if I start the truck drive it and shut it off for say an hour and then it runs and idles nasty. When I cold start for the day it idles fine.

I had to go back and read your opening complaint.  You have a few variables at play by now.  Replaced injectors a few weeks back (is there a reason behind that?).  LP died after injectors, and now a rough idle at OT.  I think you have a sealing issue in the fuel system.  If you have zero signs of external fuel leaks on the high pressure side of the pump to the head it may be the connector tube to injector interface.  If that interface leaks injection timing and quantity will be incorrect.  The misplaced fuel simply gets returned to the tank via the return and you are none the wiser.  Also worth verifying everything is air tight on the low pressure side from the tank to the IP.  Air ingestion will also cause timing and quantity errors, but I usually see that to be a constant issue, or worse durning initial start of the day.

I was kind of thinking about the connector tune thing. I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be sealing right because I replaced onrings and all. Replaced injectors because old ones were wearing out. Also when I have the rough idle it will quite if I put in gear and start driving. 

I specifically stated the connector tube to injector interface ;-)  O-ring has nothing to do with it.  The only thing the o-ring does is keep the return fuel in the head so it can be returned to the tank.  You could run the engine without the o-rings if you don't mind dumping the majority of your fuel out of the head and onto the ground.

 

The connector tube seals to the injector body via machined surfaces, and forced deformation.  Think of hard brake lines and flared fittings.  When you tighten the injector line nut to the head, that nut is forcing not only the injector line onto the connector tube it is also forcing the connector tube onto the injector body.  If the injector body was not properly aligned with the connector tube before the injector line nut is torqued down you may not have a proper seal.  Or you may have a seal while cold, but as the components warm during operation the seal becomes compromised.  

30 minutes ago, Shainer said:

I specifically stated the connector tube to injector interface ;-)  O-ring has nothing to do with it.  The only thing the o-ring does is keep the return fuel in the head so it can be returned to the tank.  You could run the engine without the o-rings if you don't mind dumping the majority of your fuel out of the head and onto the ground.

 

The connector tube seals to the injector body via machined surfaces, and forced deformation.  Think of hard brake lines and flared fittings.  When you tighten the injector line nut to the head, that nut is forcing not only the injector line onto the connector tube it is also forcing the connector tube onto the injector body.  If the injector body was not properly aligned with the connector tube before the injector line nut is torqued down you may not have a proper seal.  Or you may have a seal while cold, but as the components warm during operation the seal becomes compromised.  

Makes sense. I thought that when I pushed the connecting tunes in it would alighn it’s self with the injecto? Obviously I got it as close as possible with my eyes. Another rather strange thing. The 1693 code is gone! Did the key trick and just said p done! Makes me think it was something to do with the code the lift pump failure threw. What’s the suggested way to properly align the injeoctrsnand connector tubes??

Also I never had this issue before my lift pump went out! 

My guess is the code was lift pump voltage out of range.  It will self clear after a number of start cycles.  I"m trying to think through what could be the trouble.  Your issue sounds worse than just one or two injectors not sealing if it is bad enough to kill the engine when put into gear.  Although it still seems like something is not sealed letting fuel bypass the high pressure side, or allowing air to enter the low pressure side.

 

Why were the injectors replaced? 

Any drivability issues prompting the injector replacement?
Do you have good fuel pressure when this occurs? 
Was a there a filter in between the failed lift pump and injection pump so trash didn't get sent to the IP?

 

I seat the injectors in the bore.  Seat connector tubes in their bore.  While applying pressure on the connector tube I rotate injectors back and forth until I locate the spot where the connector tubes are inserted at the lowest point possible.  This centers the connector tube on the injector body.   Then I install the hold down with a bit of torque, then install injector lines with a bit of torque.  Then I go back and torque the hold downs to final specs.  Crank engine to bleed air out of lines and torque injector lines until fuel stops leaking.

4 minutes ago, Shainer said:

My guess is the code was lift pump voltage out of range.  It will self clear after a number of start cycles.  I"m trying to think through what could be the trouble.  Your issue sounds worse than just one or two injectors not sealing if it is bad enough to kill the engine when put into gear.  Although it still seems like something is not sealed letting fuel bypass the high pressure side, or allowing air to enter the low pressure side.

 

Why were the injectors replaced? 

Any drivability issues prompting the injector replacement?
Do you have good fuel pressure when this occurs? 
Was a there a filter in between the failed lift pump and injection pump so trash didn't get sent to the IP?

 

I seat the injectors in the bore.  Seat connector tubes in their bore.  While applying pressure on the connector tube I rotate injectors back and forth until I locate the spot where the connector tubes are inserted at the lowest point possible.  This centers the connector tube on the injector body.   Then I install the hold down with a bit of torque, then install injector lines with a bit of torque.  Then I go back and torque the hold downs to final specs.  Crank engine to bleed air out of lines and torque injector lines until fuel stops leaking.

Your correct there was a lift pump circuit out of range code. When truck is doing the nasty rough idle and I start out in second like normal it will lope reL bad and almost die. Injectors replaved for no particular reason besides they were old and figure it would boost some mpgs to install new. No driveablity issues. Always have 20 psi idle and 17 wot. Yes the stock filter was in place. I might try replacing that and see if it helps matters. I may try to do a reinstall of the injectors. Inwont remove them just loosen and do as you stated.

Another symptom. When I lug the truck it lopes pretty bad. I’ll shift at 1200 rpms all the way To 6th 

1200 pretty darn low for 6th especially with the engine running poorly. 

40 minutes ago, dripley said:

1200 pretty darn low for 6th especially with the engine running poorly. 

Yup it is I’m just drying to figure out what the hell is going on! 

Not proving much that we don't know.  One or more cylinders are not firing correctly.  If the miss is present at idle you can crack injector lines while it is running.  Troubled injectors will not degrade the idle quality.  Healthy injectors will.  If you have two cylinders not contributing adjacent to each other in the firing sequence you can get a very rough engine.

3 hours ago, Shainer said:

Not proving much that we don't know.  One or more cylinders are not firing correctly.  If the miss is present at idle you can crack injector lines while it is running.  Troubled injectors will not degrade the idle quality.  Healthy injectors will.  If you have two cylinders not contributing adjacent to each other in the firing sequence you can get a very rough engine.

How do you suggest I find out what’s going on?

Have to be methodical and start proving systems out one at a time.  If the symptoms are repeatable at idle you can crack injectors to try and figure out how many cylinders are impacted and try correcting the the injectors on those holes.  If that doesn't change things or it seems like there is no consistent issue on specific cylinders I'd probably look for air in the fuel by adding a section of clear line.

 

Actually walk through BlueChip's guides.  No sense in me re-inventing the wheel.  Only thing I will add is that in my experience issues tend to be related to components and systems a person has messed with.  They make the assumption everything was done right, and never prove them out.
https://www.bluechipdiesel.com/troubleshooting-1

 

Edited March 11, 20187 yr by Shainer