Alright guys I want to hear your opinions... Currently we have a rule that only those with 20 posts or more (standard members) can download files. We have had people abuse the rule so they could rack up their 20 posts and get what they want. The rule is in place so people can't just get the file and run because the theory is that we would have too many people downloading and it would kill the website server. It is a way to regulate basically, but also a way to let people pay us back in a sense for the info we dug up. Now, I have seen maybe 1 person a month who actually wants the file bad enough to become a member and to post asking for it, I don't really see that as a server overload.. I also do not think a person who is trying to fix their truck should have to go through hoops to get a file that is still essentially free but we require them to spend a lot of valuable time to get the file, time most people cannot afford. This site is supposed to help people, not make it a chore to learn how to fix their truck. My theory was to have it so that if they are a nonmember and want the file, they email us asking for it. If they want the file they are going to either spam 20 posts or they are going to ask for it and either way they still get it with little gain on the site side. They simply don't have the time to expend on it. But what else do you guys think about it all? Any other ideas or.... I'm always open for improvement.

Here is a PM sent back to me...

My posts make sense now don't they.. The intent of this site is to help, not force upon people to join a club before they can get resources to help. It's exactly the same as having to subscribe to a magazine before getting something else free. The bandwidth issue can be resolved by outsourcing the files, such as on dropbox which I have a link to further up in this thread with all the files already there. Being it is free, it has a 2GB/24 hour period limit, but it doesn't tax the site's bandwidth at all so I would think it would be perfect. Put a note in the downloads section saying nonmembers can use the dropbox thing, members obviously can use whatever they want. I know everyone else seems to like the "you get what you pay for" mentality, even if you pay for it with 20 posts, but these are just files anyone can get if they search hard enough. I don't believe people should have to search hard to find stuff. I've searched for years for stuff and would tell anyone everything I know if they wanted to sit and hear about the p7100 for a day. I hate the constant mystery that is necessary for repair shops to stay in business, to me it should be about innovation, not a world of repairwork. If something breaks people should be able to fix it, not be forced to pay thousands for someone else to fix it, that should be an option. Hence the reason I would give everyone any resources they want. Link them to dropbox, problem solved.

There is a couple of extra options I could do for the limited member after looking back over the settings of the download plugin. Limit the amount of downloads in 24 hours say to 1 file.-OR-Limit the amount of bandwidth in 24 hours say to 200 MB.The dropbox links could be added to the description of each file if you wish but I can build actual download links to each as a mirror then the global limit are effect for the mirror link as well. But it would be up to someone to verify the limits are still god and check them from time to time.ADDON: I've been thinking about this a bit more. Because of future changes in software and growing pains now I need to simply this whole thing. I'm plaining on change the forum software from vBulletin to something else hopefully this fall when I got time. But in the mean time I would try to balance this back out making fair for the ones that contribute but allowing for others to download what they need without soaking the site. I'm willing to hear idea of re-balancing the site rules to make this work. By file amount, bandwidth amount or both.I'm leaning toward the bandwidth option more because it would allow a number say 200 MB and then allow the member to download at least 1 service manuals. But maybe the user would like several smaller files within that 200 MB limit. If I limit by download count then user might feel cheated for downloading 1 smaller file and being locked out. Of course donated users would be free and clear of any limits.Then looking back over the download bandwidth usage. Here is a few big hitter in the Download logs. 1,058,470 KB (or 1.05 GB) in 48 Files 1,293,070 KB (or 1.29 GB) in 29 files 1,382,973 KB (or 1.38 GB) in 10 filesSo if to redesign the system some here is a thought. This would allow a newbie off the street to grab at least 1 of the biggest books 2008 FSM which is 412 MB. Or 2 of the smaller books. Ditch the limited member group - Just move all them into the Standard member group. Standard members - 450 MB bandwidthDitch the premium members - Move them back to the standard membership base. More to come...

Surprised no one commented on my last post?

I'm not sure what to say. I joined this forum as well as several other diesel forums but this is my favorite site. Down to earth, not concerned with triple turbos and 1 thousand horsepower . I post questions , get honest answers and good tech from folks like yourself, and that is awesome . I didn't just search for a place to download manuals. I know it takes time to run a forum and I'm sure some $ so not so sure I agree to just opening downloads to "whoever".

i like the limiting download option. say 1-2 files for non members and member younger then 20 posts. and open to all member with 20 posts or more. if you need to set the not to exceed XXX bandwidth for all users then do so. maybe with a java popup stating they have used X and have X left.. something..

So funny and strange... :think:Well ISX makes a good argument for having open access to the downloads but in the same token most all members have no problems with the 20 post limitation or a possible bandwidth limitation.

There is a couple of extra options I could do for the limited member after looking back over the settings of the download plugin. Limit the amount of downloads in 24 hours say to 1 file. -OR- Limit the amount of bandwidth in 24 hours say to 200 MB. The dropbox links could be added to the description of each file if you wish but I can build actual download links to each as a mirror then the global limit are effect for the mirror link as well. But it would be up to someone to verify the limits are still god and check them from time to time. ADDON: I've been thinking about this a bit more. Because of future changes in software and growing pains now I need to simply this whole thing. I'm plaining on change the forum software from vBulletin to something else hopefully this fall when I got time. But in the mean time I would try to balance this back out making fair for the ones that contribute but allowing for others to download what they need without soaking the site. I'm willing to hear idea of re-balancing the site rules to make this work. By file amount, bandwidth amount or both. I'm leaning toward the bandwidth option more because it would allow a number say 200 MB and then allow the member to download at least 1 service manuals. But maybe the user would like several smaller files within that 200 MB limit. If I limit by download count then user might feel cheated for downloading 1 smaller file and being locked out. Of course donated users would be free and clear of any limits. Then looking back over the download bandwidth usage. Here is a few big hitter in the Download logs. 1,058,470 KB (or 1.05 GB) in 48 Files 1,293,070 KB (or 1.29 GB) in 29 files 1,382,973 KB (or 1.38 GB) in 10 files So if to redesign the system some here is a thought. This would allow a newbie off the street to grab at least 1 of the biggest books 2008 FSM which is 412 MB. Or 2 of the smaller books. Ditch the limited member group - Just move all them into the Standard member group. Standard members - 450 MB bandwidth Ditch the premium members - Move them back to the standard membership base. More to come...

Mike, With 100% free file sharing, you will see site traffic increase and site traffic quality decrease. You want to grow the site traffic and keep as high of quality of posters as possible, while encouraging learning. I've learned a TON from the family here, and would be driving a Tundra if it weren't for the assets and members here. I can't say what your bandwidth demands and limitations would be for making it a download free for all. The idear of having 1 download for a limited member until upgrade makes good sense. That way, the dude can get the manual for his truck but can't leech everything. Much as good fences make good neighbors, on techincal forums strict moderation makes a good healthy forum. It is a tough job you have as Admin of the best Cummins truck site on the web, but darn it, its the best truck site! Keep it up, and good luck in your decision. ETA: I love this place. you and anybody else, are welcome to a beer if you can work it into my schedule.

I still stick to my "limit for new users".ISX stated the manuals and such are already free, if you look hard enough..Exactly. So if that's all you want, look elsewhere. If you want to join a forum to help fix your Dodge, then join. Ask questions. Ask for help. You generally won't have to wait then entire length if you ask questions.I've posted specific pages of wiring diagrams for those with not enough posts to download, and it got them through their problems.. Some never return after their 'Thanks' post, but whatever.

Mike, With 100% free file sharing, you will see site traffic increase and site traffic quality decrease. You want to grow the site traffic and keep as high of quality of posters as possible, while encouraging learning. I've learned a TON from the family here, and would be driving a Tundra if it weren't for the assets and members here. I can't say what your bandwidth demands and limitations would be for making it a download free for all. The idear of having 1 download for a limited member until upgrade makes good sense. That way, the dude can get the manual for his truck but can't leech everything. Much as good fences make good neighbors, on techincal forums strict moderation makes a good healthy forum. It is a tough job you have as Admin of the best Cummins truck site on the web, but darn it, its the best truck site! Keep it up, and good luck in your decision. ETA: I love this place. you and anybody else, are welcome to a beer if you can work it into my schedule.

Thank you CSM that comment hit the nail on the head. I'm not so much after traffic as I'm after site quality. Site quality is my number 1 goal. Traffic usually is a result from the site quality. As for the bandwidth ability that's another limiting factor this why I I'm happen with our growth rate currently. The active members tend to roll off and fall into the lost family members group as new ones step up looking for help. We've held 200 active members in 30 days for about 2 years now slightly growing but slowly. Once again traffic isn't my goal. Also like other have said if you ask for the books typically either ISX or myself will cut the books loose for the people are in dire need of the information or if they ask question someone typically steps up and offers a answer to there problem. What is so strange is most of us no longer follow the book for answer but have farmed out our own solutions to common problems. Like most of the 12V information is in ISX head not in the FSM. You not going to find all ISX wonderful P7100 injection pump info in FSM. There is a difference between the commercial sites like CF.com and M73M.com. The difference is they use a lot of Google Ads to pay for bandwidth and are capable of having a dedicated server for there site which typically is $300 to $500 a month for that kind of bandwidth. M73M.com has been in operation since 2007 on a shoestring budget, no google ads, and supported solely by the membership and staff. Once again you can clearly see the traffic angle can't be a goal because of restriction of bandwidth but the quality of service is a high priority.

Ok. This is what I gone and changed for now. Limited Member - From no downloads at all to 1 download per day. Standard Members - From 1 download per day to 450 MB of bandwidth. Rest of the members stayed the same. This lifts the limits a bit allowing people to get information they are looking for but hopefully they will also contribute back to the family pool of information as well.Also I've changed the canned PM and EMail text to show the changes of the new setting I've got to dig in and change they rest of the site too. I'm going to create a article based on this thread and post it up as well.