New CJ-4 oils in older Flat Tappet Engine

[Dieselfuture]

Cheap and available is Shell Rotella and Chevron Delo.

I would use Rotella over Delo but that's just my preference. Valvoline Blue is not as easy to find in my neck of the woods and usually runs 3 to 4 dollars more per gallon.

See thing is these are all cj4 oils and I was told older ci4 oils had better additives for lubricity and whatever else, so that's why I kind of started this thread as some one mentioned that CAT still sells good ci4 oil and price is $12 a gallon vs $27 a gallon for Amsoil, I'm willing to get Valvoline Blue for $15 a gallon if it's better than this Cat oil I've been trying to figure out. I don't care about saving 2-3 bucks a gallon as long as I don't ruin my engine.

[Dieselfuture]

When my  motor was rebuilt I used Premium Blue for the first 3 oil changes as cheap oil. I picked it up on sale cheaper than Delo.

So I take it that you use Amsoil now? Or something really close to it.

[Vais01]

When my motor was rebuilt I used Premium Blue for the first 3 oil changes as cheap oil. I picked it up on sale cheaper than Delo.

In my neck of the woods Valvoline Premium Blue has a premium price tag of around 25 dollars, while Rotella T6 5W-40 is around 22 dollars per gallon. My personal opinion is if you plan on running long drain intervals use synthetic otherwise run 15W-40 dino.

Again my vote is Rotella it's around 12 dollars a gallon where I am.

[Vais01]

See thing is these are all cj4 oils and I was told older ci4 oils had better additives for lubricity and whatever else, so that's why I kind of started this thread as some one mentioned that CAT still sells good ci4 oil and price is $12 a gallon vs $27 a gallon for Amsoil, I'm willing to get Valvoline Blue for $15 a gallon if it's better than this Cat oil I've been trying to figure out. I don't care about saving 2-3 bucks a gallon as long as I don't ruin my engine.

CI-4 oils are not really necessary on with modern 15 PPM sulfur fuel. The sulfur is what necessitated the higher TBN levels and the lubricity pack (phosphorus, zinc, molybdenum etc.) are not much higher than CJ-4 oils.

I would run some 15W-40 CJ-4 and I believe you will be just fine.

[Vais01]

AH64ID do you have a VOA sample to post on the Amsoil HDEO your running? I'd like to compare it to my oil listing chart and my UOA to see what the differences are.

[AH64ID]

No I don't have a VOA of the AME.

[Dieselfuture]

What's VOA and UOA?

Edited September 30, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[Dieselfuture]

Ok I might be missing something here but where does it describe CJ4 oil on this page http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/AUXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_MX_15W-40.aspx all I see is Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry and builder specifications:

API CI-4/CH-4/SL/SJ

[AH64ID]

What's VOA and UOA?

 

Virgin Oil Analysis

Used Oil Analysis

 

Ok I might be missing something here but where does it describe CJ4 oil on this page http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/AUXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_MX_15W-40.aspx all I see is Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry and builder specifications:

API CI-4/CH-4/SL/SJ

It doesn't. Look at the 5 gallon pail.

Like Vais said, something doesn't add up with this oil.

[Vais01]

Ok I might be missing something here but where does it describe CJ4 oil on this page http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/AUXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_MX_15W-40.aspx all I see is Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry and builder specifications:

API CI-4/CH-4/SL/SJ

The Mobil Delvac MX oil is a marine or off highway application oil for engines without DPF's. The Altorfer is the oil we are questioning because so far the results they have given you and the oil specifications listed on the pail show it could be CJ-4 but they listed and sold you this as CI-4. 

 

When you get a chance look the pail over for manufacturer info. Look to see if it says SOPUS, Exxon/Mobil or Chevron as those are the big names that would make the oil.

 

 

The oil you have is made by Exxon/Mobile for CAT. Check your part numbers.

 

 

A PDF to help.

http://www.altorfer.com/images/catfluids-oil.pdf

Edited September 30, 2015 by Vais01

[Vais01]

ok, here is test results for brand new unused cat 15w40 ci4 oil

According to CAT this should be the part number for a pail of 15W-40 CI-4 oil. PN: 3E-9902

 

 

I believe you have a pail of CJ-4 15W-40 with the part number: 378-6535

[Vais01]

AH64ID, 

 

After going back and looking at your UOA with the AME I compared it to my Blackstone labs report using Rotella T6 and the zinc and phospherous levels are identical (+/- 10 PPM). Besides me being a 5W-40 and your primary detergent being Calcium (over 3000 PPM on AME) the overall oils are as I said nearly identical in all aspects including cSt viscosity at 100C .

[Dieselfuture]

AH64ID,

After going back and looking at your UOA with the AME I compared it to my Blackstone labs report using Rotella T6 and the zinc and phospherous levels are identical (+/- 10 PPM). Besides me being a 5W-40 and your primary detergent being Calcium (over 3000 PPM on AME) the overall oils are as I said nearly identical in all aspects including cSt viscosity at 100C .

Look at mine too looks like amsoil is using calcium and this Altorfer oil is using magnisium

[Dieselfuture]

Exxon Mobil I don't see any numbers you provided

Edited September 30, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[AH64ID]

 

AH64ID, 

 

After going back and looking at your UOA with the AME I compared it to my Blackstone labs report using Rotella T6 and the zinc and phospherous levels are identical (+/- 10 PPM). Besides me being a 5W-40 and your primary detergent being Calcium (over 3000 PPM on AME) the overall oils are as I said nearly identical in all aspects including cSt viscosity at 100C .

 

Did you post a copy of it? I did a quick look and didn't see it. 

Exxon Mobil I don't see any numbers you provided

 

Which numbers? The standards are in your pic in post #107.

[Vais01]

 

 

 

Did you post a copy of it? I did a quick look and didn't see it. 

 

Which numbers? The standards are in your pic in post #107.

 

No I did not post a photo of my 5500 mile UOA. 

 

Engine had 254,460 on it at the sample time with no make up oil. 

 

Aluminum:  2

Chromium:  2

Iron:  16

Copper:  1

Lead:  2

Tin:  0

Molybdenum:  69

Nickel:  0

Manganese:  0 

Silver:  0

Titanium:  0

Potassium:  5

Boron:  46

Silicon:  41 (engine was opened up and dirt ingestion)

Sodium:  7

Calcium:  887

Magnesium:  1318

Phosphorous:  1165

Zinc:  1391

Barium:  0

 

SUS Viscosity @212 F:  71.5

cSt Viscosity @ 100 C:  13.36

Flashpoint in F:  420

Fuel dilution percentage:  < 0.05 %

Antifreeze %:  0.0%

Water %:  0.0%

Insolubles:  0.1%

TBN:  8.8

 

 

 

 

 

CAT specific part numbers:

 

 

According to CAT this should be the part number for a pail of 15W-40 CI-4 oil. PN: 3E-9902

 

 

I believe you have a pail of CJ-4 15W-40 with the part number: 378-6535

 

The link where I found it all.

 

http://www.altorfer.com/images/catfluids-oil.pdf

[AH64ID]

Very similar report.

Cummins has there own oil analysis program also. Not sure why they recommend another company. Curious to know if the Cummins UOA would be any better?

Take a look at the Fleetguard test angus just started a thread about then look at my OAI test.... They are identical, not the results but the test. Fleetguard appears to contract thru OAI.

So I take it that you use Amsoil now? Or something really close to it.

Yes Amsoil AME CI-4+ 15w-40.

[Dieselfuture]

According to this chart http://www.altorfer.com/images/catfluids-oil.pdf this oil I got is only good to -9.5c and amsoil I'm using now is good to -40c I guess that's why it's almost triple the money. But it does say it can go to 500h which is way more than I need.

[Vais01]

Very similar report.

Take a look at the Fleetguard test angus just started a thread about then look at my OAI test.... They are identical, not the results but the test. Fleetguard appears to contract thru OAI.

Yes Amsoil AME CI-4+ 15w-40.

I saw the Fleetguard test it's nearly identical. I think one company may be stamping the name on the other ones work and charging a bit more. Edited October 1, 2015 by Vais01

[Vais01]

According to this chart http://www.altorfer.com/images/catfluids-oil.pdf this oil I got is only good to -9.5c and amsoil I'm using now is good to -40c I guess that's why it's almost triple the money. But it does say it can go to 500h which is way more than I need.

15W-40 is only good down to 0 degrees Fahrenheit plugged in or 15 degrees Fahrenheit non assisted by block heaters. Any colder than 0 degrees and you risk oil starving the bearings.

Amsoil AME that AH64ID posted a UOA on nearly matches my 5W-40 viscosity but on his lab results I can only see the cSt value at 100 degrees but not SUS at 212 degrees. Something very odd about that Amsoil.