Suspension upgrades.

[The_Hammer]

Currently I have a 2" leveling kit installed that consists of 2" steel coil spring spacers and add-a-leafs in the rear. I'm not happy with my ride quality and will be changing some things up to make it right. 

First up is building a pair of shackle reversal brackets and shackles. This will accomplish two things:

1 - Converting from the stock tension shackle to a compression shackle improves ride quality without sacrificing load capacity.

2 - The added lift will allow the removal of the factory lift blocks and add-a-leafs, resulting in less axle wrap and a smoother ride.

A couple of things to take in to account is that as you drop the rear spring mounting points down it also changes the pinion angle and moves the axle foward. This can be taken care of with an offset 1" zero rate and 5° wedge, or an offset 1" zero rate with a 5° slope machined in, nether of which will adversely affect load carrying capacity or durability.

The front suspension is a bit more involved with multiple options for optimizing ride quality. The most common route to take is to install extended control arms, followed by long arms, and finally long radius arms. I'm thinking about going with long radius arms due to the fact that I'm not running much lift and have minimal clearance to work with. The goal is to have the arms as parallel to the ground as possible, which equates to a smoother ride. The only negative of a long radius arm set up is that it doesn't flex as much as a 4-link, since my truck doesn't see any serious off road use that's of no concern to me.

 

I'll be starting on the shackle reversal very soon as I have finally got my hands on enough 1/4" plate to build them. I will be l taking pictures and documenting the project as I go along.

[The_Hammer]

This is interesting.

[CSM]

Stock suspension is pretty decent imo.  It is going to take a lot of trial and error to get equal suspension towing capacity with a lift.  However, if you don't tow at gcvw, that isn't a priority and you have a lot of room for changes.

One thing to keep an eye on with the shackles is pinion depth.  Stock, as the truck squats, it should actually pull the pinion yoke out, but with changed shackles it may change the geometry there. 

You posted a 4 link drawing.  I'm assuming coil overs too.  Nice for a lot of applications but you may get equal utility at less cost with simple trailing links and coil overs.  Another thought for this route is to find a wrecked 2015 and steal the rear suspension from it.

[The_Hammer]

I'm not linking the rear suspension, it's staying leaf sprung. You bring up a valid point with pinion depth, I don't tow very much and when I do it's not that heavy. One way around that possible issue would be to use air bags.

I'm wanting to correct the front control arm angles with either a long arm or radius arm setup. The picture above shows a fairly simple way to do a long arm utilizing the stock LCA mount for the top CA, and adding a mount further back for a longer LCA. The issue with this setup though is that I don't have enough lift for it to work. So, I'm going with a radius arm setup. 

This would be a fairly simple setup setup to build.  

I wouldn't build them as long and would use poly bushing instead of ballistic/heim joints. Most of the time you see arms that are built super heavy duty because the trucks are heavily used and abused offroad, which is something that I'm not doing. My goal is to have the bottom of the arms as level to the ground as possible at normal ride height. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by The_Hammer

[The_Hammer]

I've been racking my brain going over ideas for the front control arms and  no matter what I come up with there is one common denominator that I can't get around, the factory LCA mount. The only way to make something like this work with the small lift that I have is to cut the stock mounting brackets off the frame, which I do NOT want to do. If for some reason I don't like the rear shackle reversal I can easily put it back to stock, reverting the front back to stock after cutting the mounts off could be a real pita.

Since I'm not man enough  to cut the stock mounts off I'm going to settle on building some longer control arms that will push the axle about a 1/2" further forward than stock. Seeing as my current control arm bushings have more cracks in them than a plumbers convention I can only imagine longer arms and new bushings will help improve the ride quality quite a bit. 

My swaybar end links are completely trashed and will be replaced with a pair of extended maxxlink ends, which I'm sure help with handling. Ordered a pair of Bilstein 5100 shocks last night to replace my completely wore out front shocks, which should also help the handling.

I know this is a truck and not a sports car but I want to make it ride and handle the best it can for what it is. I still believe a radius arm setup (which Dodge and Ford are both using now) would give me the best geometry for the front end but I just can't make myself cut those stock mounts off lol. 

 

[TFaoro]

Have you looked at dodge off road's long arm kit? They basically went around the stock mount instead of cutting it off. This style would probably provide you with the best ride quality in the front.

[The_Hammer]

I don't have a tubing bender or $1400 for DOR's kit lol. It may be something I try later though. 

[TFaoro]

Definitely understand that!! BUT I bet you could buy just the two top arms from them and build the rest yourself. I'm just throwing ideas out because I'm considering it myself haha!

http://www.dodgeoffroad.com/store_DORlongarms.php

[The_Hammer]

That could be an option for sure. Right now though I'm going to build a set of regular extended arms since I can do it for about $200. 

[JOHNFAK]

1 hour ago, TFaoro said:

Definitely understand that!! BUT I bet you could buy just the two top arms from them and build the rest yourself. I'm just throwing ideas out because I'm considering it myself haha!

http://www.dodgeoffroad.com/store_DORlongarms.php

DOR longarms require the arm mount to be cut and removed. They provide you a new brace that ties into transfercase. This is what I run.

Save your $$.

I have $5k in suspension ....... and its just not worth it.

[The_Hammer]

@JOHNFAK

Would you mind listing your suspension upgrades? I'm very interested in your experiences. 

[JOHNFAK]

DOR Rear Shackle Flip
DOR Fully Adjustable Extreme bent Long Arms
DOR Heavy Duty Steering Kit Bolt In
DOR Steering Brace
Carli 2.5 Pintop Shocks
Carli 3" Coils
Carli Stabilizer
Thuren DYSKO front bumpstops
BlueTop Quick Turn Steering rebuilt box
Maaxlink Endlinks

think thats about it .....
 

[The_Hammer]

I have a few questions for you. 

What don't you like about your current suspension setup? 

Which components made the most difference? 

Which components made the least difference? 

[TFaoro]

45 minutes ago, JOHNFAK said:

DOR longarms require the arm mount to be cut and removed. They provide you a new brace that ties into transfercase. This is what I run.

Save your $$.

I have $5k in suspension ....... and its just not worth it.

From the picture I posted, the bracket is still there?? Would you mind posting pictures of your setup? I bet I could build almost everything and save a lot of money.

[JOHNFAK]

Honestly If I had it over again I wouldn't have spent the money. I dont feel my truck drives that much better. Of course Carli tell you you need there rear leafs. The ONLY guy that I know that ran them on a 24v said the same thing - couldn't tell that much difference.

I cant really tell you what made the most difference. I will tell you I feel comfortable hitting a speed bump at 40mph ..... but I generally dont do that .... so  The worst issue is bumpsteer as well as trying to control the smaller bumps - you cant if the suspensiondoesnt travel - like hitting a pothole. Thats almost completely in the tires - people dont tell you that though

Long and short. If I could do over this is what I would do.

Thuren 2"/3"  Coils with his overland shocks or maybe some 7100's.
3rd Gen leaf/hanger conversion (lengthen the leafs) and move to a 3rd gen setup. Look to remove overloads if not towing.
Steering Linkage Upgrade (OEM)
Good Track Bar - probably DOR - he undoubtedly makes the best stuff - but I wont deal with him again.
Steering Brace (DOR)
BEST TIRES I COULD AFFORD
 

Would have ridden better and saved myself some coin
In all honesty I think the offroad/suspension stuff is hyped up. Now Im talking for regular people. If you do want to launch your truck over dunes and large ruts - then yeah I cant imagine what a properly tuned 3.0 or higher setup would do - probably insane and well worth it. But for a street truck - its just meh ..... 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by JOHNFAK

[The_Hammer]

8 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

From the picture I posted, the bracket is still there?? Would you mind posting pictures of your setup? I bet I could build almost everything and save a lot of money.

My main concern is I don't want to waste my time if it's not going to do what I want. 

@JOHNFAK

What issues did you have with DOR? I've been reading about people having issues with him. I have his trackbar and love it, but that's the only thing I've ordered from him.

It sounds like I'll be better off going with my current plan over a more elaborate set up. 

Extended control arms that move the axle 1/2" further forward than stock.
98-99 HD steering upgrade using Raybestos Pro parts. 
Maxx link extended swaybar links. 
Shackle reversal and removing the factory block and ditching the add-a-leafs. 

Control arms and shackle reversal will be built by me. 

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by The_Hammer

[TFaoro]

From what I read they take forever to get anything done.... Quality products with horrible wait times.

With longer arms you'd think it would ride more like a 3rd gen up front. Mine is horrible compared to my brother's 05. Like night and day difference. We both have 2" leveling spacers up front too. You'd think with longer arms and better springs it should ride significantly better.

I'd really like to do the shackle flip IF it helps like they say it does. I know it would help eliminate axle wrap too. Traction bars do their job, but they make it ride even worse in the rear. I'm considering building a set of ladder bars this summer. At least then it wouldn't be quite as bad.

[JOHNFAK]

39 minutes ago, The_Hammer said:

My main concern is I don't want to waste my time if it's not going to do what I want. 

@JOHNFAK

What issues did you have with DOR? I've been reading about people having issues with him. I have his trackbar and love it, but that's the only thing I've ordered from him.

It sounds like I'll be better off going with my current plan over a more elaborate set up. 

Extended control arms that move the axle 1/2" further forward than stock.
98-99 HD steering upgrade using Raybestos Pro parts. 
Maxx link extended swaybar links. 
Shackle reversal and removing the factory block and ditching the add-a-leafs. 

Control arms and shackle reversal will be built by me. 

 

Shackle Flip did barely anything for me. 
Control arms - not much.

Id put all my money into dealing with the rear. Hence the 3rd gen leafs/hanger. Ever ridden in a 3rd gen compared with a 24v ? 
Not expensive if you can weld good

Danny (DOR) I believe is a good guy. He makes a good product. Bt he just dropped the ball too many times and you can NEVER get a hold of him for missing/wrong parts. Im talking MONTHS to get stuff resolved. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by JOHNFAK

[CTcummins24V]

2 hours ago, The_Hammer said:

My main concern is I don't want to waste my time if it's not going to do what I want. 

@JOHNFAK

What issues did you have with DOR? I've been reading about people having issues with him. I have his trackbar and love it, but that's the only thing I've ordered from him.

It sounds like I'll be better off going with my current plan over a more elaborate set up. 

Extended control arms that move the axle 1/2" further forward than stock.
98-99 HD steering upgrade using Raybestos Pro parts. 
Maxx link extended swaybar links. 
Shackle reversal and removing the factory block and ditching the add-a-leafs. 

Control arms and shackle reversal will be built by me. 

 

I would consider a different sway bar end link. I took all my maxx links off and the truck rides smoother over bumps. They are too stiff, bushing on the sway bar, which is good, and a bushing and tapered end on the axle with no movement/flex. I went back to the oem design with a ball joint style on the axle end and I am happier with the ride. My 2 cents 

[JOHNFAK]

48 minutes ago, CTcummins24V said:

I would consider a different sway bar end link. I took all my maxx links off and the truck rides smoother over bumps. They are too stiff, bushing on the sway bar, which is good, and a bushing and tapered end on the axle with no movement/flex. I went back to the oem design with a ball joint style on the axle end and I am happier with the ride. My 2 cents 

Good tip/feedback.