Turbo Questions

[leathermaneod]

Well based on all that do you think the turbo needs rebuilt? I have had a lot of people telling me not to rebuild it unless it really needs it...so thats what Im trying to figure out...and it doesnt look wet in the intercooler pipe at all...

Edited December 24, 2015 by leathermaneod

[Royal Squire]

I can hear the cows just fine!

[Cowboy]

Do I see some nicks out of the blade?

If that's the case, I would hold on the rebuild and keep an eye open for a replacement.

[leathermaneod]

Yes you did see at least one pretty good nick. I don't know what it's from as I've never worked on the turbo but it's there for sure. When you say a replacement, do you mean an entire turbo or just compressor wheel? 

And based on everything else do you think a rebuild is necessary? Or is it at least not urgent? Maybe it could wait till spring/summer?

[Cowboy]

From what I can see, I think you'd be OK rebuild wise.  The oil seepage seems very slight.  When the wheel rubs the housing, it will normally make a higher pitch scraching sound, you may have heard it in the video I made.  I don't hear it in your video.  One thing to keep in mind is that with those chunks out of the wheel, it won't be balanced anymore.  So if you plan on just replacing the wheel, sooner would be better than later.

On the wheel damage, turbo or wheel shouldn't matter.  If you get just a wheel, make sure that it's individually balanced.  with your setup, you could probably get away with not balancing the whole assembly when done.  Also, if getting just the wheel, get a 7 blade wheel same as your current one, they flow a little better.

[leathermaneod]

2 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

From what I can see, I think you'd be OK rebuild wise.  The oil seepage seems very slight.  When the wheel rubs the housing, it will normally make a higher pitch scraching sound, you may have heard it in the video I made.  I don't hear it in your video.  One thing to keep in mind is that with those chunks out of the wheel, it won't be balanced anymore.  So if you plan on just replacing the wheel, sooner would be better than later.

On the wheel damage, turbo or wheel shouldn't matter.  If you get just a wheel, make sure that it's individually balanced.  with your setup, you could probably get away with not balancing the whole assembly when done.  Also, if getting just the wheel, get a 7 blade wheel same as your current one, they flow a little better.

Thanks a lot cowboy you have been extremely helpful. I really appreciate you educating me on this. By OK I assume you mean its not urgent? But basically if I wait too long to replace the wheel, housing damage could result from the wheel not being balanced due to the nick? is that correct? Then I would have to replace the whole turbo/housing? Are compressor wheels normally balanced? like if i buy a new one from a reputable dealer? If I'm buying a new one is there anything better than a 7 blade? or is that the best for my turbo?

[Cowboy]

On 12/24/2015 at 11:55 AM, leathermaneod said:

Thanks a lot cowboy you have been extremely helpful. I really appreciate you educating me on this. By OK I assume you mean its not urgent? But basically if I wait too long to replace the wheel, housing damage could result from the wheel not being balanced due to the nick? is that correct? Then I would have to replace the whole turbo/housing? Are compressor wheels normally balanced? like if i buy a new one from a reputable dealer? If I'm buying a new one is there anything better than a 7 blade? or is that the best for my turbo?

I apologize for not getting back sooner with the holidays and all.

Yeah, I don't think it's urgent.  You are correct, if you wait to long housing damage could result, though I think your a while from that happening.  Then yes, you'd basically have to replace the whole turbo.  Honestly, I'm not sure if compressors are normally balanced or not, I would check with whichever shop you purchase from.  There are other options for compressor wheels, let me dig up a link.

Found it:

Upgraded Wheel

http://www.pdrdiesel.com/shop/products/Dieselsite_1998_2002_HX35_Wicked_Wheel_2-1030-7.html

Whole Turbo - Turbine housing

http://www.pdrdiesel.com/shop/products/PDR_HX35_Turbo_Dodge_Cummins_1998_5_02_24V-482-139.html?set_current_currency=1

 

I recommend you do your own research as to what would work best for you.  I'll be swapping to a He341 here pretty soon, you can normally pick them up for ~$200.   I don't think they are all the same, but the one I have has a HX35 7 blade compressor, but a tighter exhaust to help spooling, and reports say it flows better then a HX35 up top too... I'll find out.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cowboy

[leathermaneod]

No problem. I understand totally about the holidays and I hope you are enjoying them! Thanks again for the help on turbos. I have been reading up trying to educate myself on exhaust housing size, turbine size, and compressor wheel size and what they all mean to me. Ive also been trying to come up with a good option for a modest upgrade when I do the rebuild. It seems the hybrid HX35/40 is popular? But then again some say its not enough of an upgrade to be worth it. I figured if I could get a used HX40 with a good housing and comp wheel, I could rebuild mine, add the HX40 comp wheel and housing and have a sweet hybrid without needing to machine anything. I don't have the experience to know if this is a good option or not though. I don't want to go twins and I would like to get maximum use out of my HX35, but I hate to rebuild it without doing some sort of upgrade. Lowering EGT's wouldn't really hurt though either, but I don't want to loose my quick spool. Then again I've also learned about drive pressure and the importance of keeping that in check. The thing I'm most unsure of at this point is, exactly how all these things relate to each other. I like your avatar btw, minions are awesome lol

Edited December 31, 2015 by leathermaneod

[Cowboy]

I tried to repost the links I found, but it added it to my previous post. so go up there and look again haha.

I concur, minions are awesome.

What are your goals with this truck?  there are millions of turbo options out there, and it's hard to give advice without knowing what you're after.

I personally am a sucker for wanting my cake and eating it to, this HE341 should give me my improved spool-up ability, and then I'll likely throw another turbo under it.

If you want a stock spooling turbo that can make well over 400hp a HE351 is hard to beat.  It's got a 60mm compressor instead of your current 56mm,  but the turbine is a 58mm instead of a 60.  Plus the turbine housing is a 9cm undevided instead of a 12cm devided.

In English, you get a turbo that supports big power, with stock like spooling, and better drive pressure control then stock.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cowboy

[leathermaneod]

As far as what I want to do with the truck. Right now its a DD. But I plan to keep it for a long time, and who knows if ill tow or not in the future. I just want reasonable power, good milage, and reliability. I baby it 99% of the time, and try to take really good care of it. I can't justify dumping a lot more money into it, thats why I said I don't want twins. I have BD 75hp injectors right now, but I may eventually back down to RV275's to see if I can get better milage. I only have the BD 75's because they came with the truck. I also have a smarty and it will smoke pretty good even with the smarty on SW5 if I step on it, so I know it could use more air. How does the HE351 lower drive pressure with a smaller exhaust housing? I thought it works the opposite? Is it because of the divided/not decided housings? what exactly does divided housing mean? How easy is it to throw an HE351 on my truck? for example, price? ease of install? mounting to 4in exhaust?

Thanks for the links,

I have been looking at the wicked wheels, have you heard good things about them? 

Is the PDR HX35 basically a hybrid then? you just use your existing exhaust housing?

How is a HE341 so cheap? used i assume? What is the size of it? And would you use it by itself or only if planning on a compound setup? how hard is it to install?

Sorry for all the questions haha. Feel free to take your time replying and thanks once again for so much info. I love getting to talk to people who actually know about this stuff!

[Me78569]

Cowboy,

 

I think it's time you jump back on the vgt bandwagon, talk about cake and eating it....

[Cowboy]

54 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

 

As far as what I want to do with the truck. Right now its a DD. But I plan to keep it for a long time, and who knows if ill tow or not in the future. I just want reasonable power, good milage, and reliability. I baby it 99% of the time, and try to take really good care of it. I can't justify dumping a lot more money into it, thats why I said I don't want twins. I have BD 75hp injectors right now, but I may eventually back down to RV275's to see if I can get better milage. I only have the BD 75's because they came with the truck. I also have a smarty and it will smoke pretty good even with the smarty on SW5 if I step on it, so I know it could use more air. How does the HE351 lower drive pressure with a smaller exhaust housing? I thought it works the opposite? Is it because of the divided/not decided housings? what exactly does divided housing mean?

First of all it's a newer design, which gives it an advantage right out of the shoot.  The He351's 9cm undivided housing would be comparable to a 11 CM divided housing.  The Wastegate on the HE351 is also a much improved design, and works much better with the undivided housing.

Here's a picture of a HY35 which as a Undevided housing (top), and a HX35 which has a devided housing(bottom).

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/forums/attachments/1st-gen-ram-all-topics-93/28442d1246165504-choices-hx35-hy35-turbo-6.jpg

 

How easy is it to throw an HE351 on my truck? for example, price? ease of install? mounting to 4in exhaust?

Price wise they can be up there, as they are a fairly saute after turbo.  If you keep your eyes open you can find some pretty good deals, they normally run in the $300-350 range.  I'll see if I can dig up some links on the ease of the swap, but it's not the easiest.  The compressor is different, but you can just get a new silicone boot to connect it up.  The exhaust is the main thing, there is no mounts for a wastegate so you either have make your own or make a spring gate, they both work well.  The hookup to the manifold is the same, but going to the down pipe is different, but you can get adapter from one of the vendors on here.

Thanks for the links,

I have been looking at the wicked wheels, have you heard good things about them? 

I haven't heard of much, I know a guy that upgraded his HX35 with the $675 kit above that's pretty happy with it, though he did it instead of replacing it, which is a good option.  I don't have experience with the WW2, but most people will tell you that it's only really worth it if you need a new wheel anyway.

Is the PDR HX35 basically a hybrid then? you just use your existing exhaust housing?

I honestly have no idea what kind of witchcraft they got going on in there.

 

Quote

How is a HE341 so cheap? used i assume? What is the size of it? And would you use it by itself or only if planning on a compound setup? how hard is it to install?

Yes, the prices are used.  The HE341 is physically identical to the HE351, except has a 56mm compressor instead of the 60mm (so 56/58/9).  Most only change up there turbo for bigger power, the HE341 being so close to the HX35's specs isn't much of an upgrade, but also being a challenge to install makes it not a very popular upgrade, so unpopular that I don't even know anyone running one.  Installation is the same as the HE351, I'm going to cheat and use a HY35 Turbine housing which bolts right on, however it's got the same down pipe hookup as my current stock charger.  It also has some other advantages that are unique to my setup.  I'll be running it as a single for a while, I'll let you know how it runs, I'm hoping to get it installed within a month or so.

Sorry for all the questions haha. Feel free to take your time replying and thanks once again for so much info. I love getting to talk to people who actually know about this stuff!

Your fine,  I'm glad I could be of help.

 

12 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Cowboy,

 

I think it's time you jump back on the vgt bandwagon, talk about cake and eating it....

Lol yeah, I'll be honest, I was on that band wagon back when no one else was, now that everyone is doing it, it's lost it's charm.

Besides, if you think I'm going to go with a conventinal set of compounds you don't know me very well. 

I still haven't got any straight answers out of you as to exactly how fast that thing spools... 

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cowboy

[leathermaneod]

Thanks once again. Really appreciate you taking time to answer all my questions :-) Lots of info to process and try to make a good decision on whats best. Im leaning toward either the PDR kit or a Wicked Wheel, but I have to look into both a lot more. One thing Im really interested to know and not sure if you answered, does a smaller exhaust housing normally equal higher drive pressure? We were talking about that with relation to the HE351 vs HX35, where that is not the case...Just curios and trying to learn the general rules regarding turbos. 

[Cowboy]

You are correct, normally smaller is more restrictive which creates more drive pressure.

A exhaust housing is basically a way of setting up the turbo for your desired RPM.

The stock HX35's housing is a 12CM and loves 1800-2000 RPM.  Below that spool up is slower, higher then that Drive Pressure and EGT's get up there.  If you get a 14cm, you can move that RPM range up some (how much I don't know).  Which helps the top end, but spool up down low is slower.

Garret has a bunch of good info here.  http://turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbine_housing_AR_and_housing_sizing

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cowboy

[leathermaneod]

Great thanks again! I was looking at wicked wheels and seeing mostly good things with ones and twos saying either its not worth the cost or the disintegrate! I also found BAE has OE comp wheels for $69 so thats another option. not an upgrade but maybe I don't really need one haha 

[Me78569]

What gear do you want spool numbers for? Lol

 

2nd without lockup I struggle to keep rpms lower than 1600 so it is hard to know, but boost by 1600 is well into 20's if I am on it.

 

3rd gear 10 psi by 1400 pretty effortlessly.  I am sure I could have that lower, but I don't like driving the turbo that hard.  If I set the curve lower I am sure that rpm would be lower as the vgt likes more drive pressure, but I don't drive the turbo that hard.

 

4th again I rarely get on the go fast pedal below 1600 rpm, but locked up at 1400 pedal down it climbs above 10 psi without any issues.

 

Remember this is all at 7000' haha.

 

 

I am at sea level for christmas, maybe I will get a video for you.

I can tell you that the torque curve is much flatter and fatter with the he351 vs the hx35.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Me78569