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JOHNFAK

Dropping the 47re (a618)

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Hey guys

Ok - onto next part of the equation.

The TC and VB are ordered - and should be here in a around 1 week.

Thought I would ask for advice on dropping and reinstalling the tranny as well as the TC/VB replacement.

Any thoughts or guidelines from experience. ??

I have heard the TC and the cross members can be a pain ......................

Any special tools or techniques help ?

Things to watch out for ?

thanks

John

:thumb1:

---------- Post added at 06:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

Oh - and yes- I am getting some help also :)

hahahaha - thought I would beat W+F telling me to do so *joke* :tongue:

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Hey guys

Ok - onto next part of the equation.

The TC and VB are ordered - and should be here in a around 1 week.

Thought I would ask for advice on dropping and reinstalling the tranny as well as the TC/VB replacement.

Any thoughts or guidelines from experience. ??

I have heard the TC and the cross members can be a pain ......................

Any special tools or techniques help ?

Things to watch out for ?

thanks

John

:thumb1:

---------- Post added at 06:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

Oh - and yes- I am getting some help also :)

hahahaha - thought I would beat W+F telling me to do so *joke* :tongue:

Well the cross member is easy with a bottle jack and a cut 2x4...

Posted Image

As for help... I did my trans removal and install by myself... :tongue:

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Well the cross member is easy with a bottle jack and a cut 2x4... As for help... I did my trans removal and install by myself... :tongue:

Thanks for that pic link - funny enough I was wondering in my head if something like that would work rather than the standard 10lb sledge hammer :P :thumbup2: If you lend me you truck - I'd be happy to 'try' doing it myself. Thing is I want my truck to move afterwards - hence the help - hahaha - and by that I mean - you have seen my other posts - I think this is a good insurance 'short' for ensuring the truck gets back on the road :pray: - and living in an RV park makes doing truck work hard - so having a mates place to do it at works out well also :P The tranny+TC I think rates around 325 pounds file:///tmp/moz-screenshot.jpg file:///tmp/moz-screenshot-1.jpghttp://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html hope that works both in terms of weight as well as 'clerance' - might have to guesstimate by measuring clearance whilst on ground.

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Ok... The trans jack will work but be aware the weight of the transfer case will tip the adapter back on you... http://forum.mopar1973man.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=979 I ended up using another bottle jack to suppot the Tranfer Case and had to perate both jacks evenly to get the angle right ot insert the input shaft into the clutch... Automatic much easier to do line up the TQ conv button and go for it... :lol:

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Yeah- was thinking of removing the transfer case seperately - eg - get tranny jack on - drop a few "inches ... then let me get to the top bolts on transfer case. Hopefully then more stable on the tranny jack. What adapter was that you were using for the floor jack .......... looks like this http://www.amazon.com/Transmission-Jack-Adapter-Trani-Floor/dp/B00080QGYG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1273074449&sr=8-5 but I was woried I wouldn't have enough clearance to get out from under the truck.

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Good point.We may need to setup a '911' page or phone - that converence calls you, isx, jim, w+f ..... so on and so forth *joke*Excited and nervous - will try and take as many picks as I can :P And post results after .I need to reserach on removing the 'check valve' from the trans cooler. SOmeone said to do this - can't remember who - think was on cumminsforum .......................... prevents check valve from sticking etc :shrug:Do I need trans pressure tests before and after - and how ? :cool:

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Thats a neat trick with the crossmember never would have thought of that and sure beats beating it out with a bfh lol it sucked when I took mine out and mikes got everthing on the head the transfer case seems to weigh as much as the stinkin tranny and before lowering it double and tripple check for bs connections I ripped a grounding strap off by accident while doin mine and it is the identical tranny to yours and we will have more electronics and lines than a stick shift so heads up there otherwise take it slow and easy and you'll do good except that these trannys no matter what they wolnt last longer than a stock lift pump on a modded truck, your only shot is all new coolers lines and an upgraded unit from gorend or ats... just my :2cents: I hate these autos :lol:

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Yeah - I am hoping this will be enough (TC +VB) but hear u - hard to know what damage to the fricitons/seals etc are But worst case I can drop in the tranny from the same company - and still get my warranty - and all its goona cost is a few extra $$hundred for thatSo will still end up with a 3x disk TC , HD towing transmisison and upgraded VB for around $3500 (dropping tranny 2x and paying my mate some $$)But I might get away with just the TC and VB and that saves me $1800 :) I rung a couple of the big names. Unimpressed. Took 4 or 5 phone calls to repsond (i know they are busy) and didn't feel like I gained any insight more than the guys I went through.Plus - I really believe that for the most part they charge the extra 30-50% on covering their warranty. Yeah they will take back anything and ship back stuff and work with you - but you pay for it up front. I dunno - don't know the internals of the shop - but I like the guys so far - good to deal with.Proof will be in the pudding I guess.:) If it works out well I am gonna suggest they sponser here and get an add up :) keep the tips/hints comming guys - any1 got a PIC of where you access the TC bolts from - I thought it was from teh inspection panale under the bell housing - someone told me its not and you access from the engine/firewall side.Going to look now

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I got mine through there that took the most time I dont know how else you can do it let me take a look in my book and as for the shop if its Goerends you wolnt find one better and I'd say after doing a valve body a tourque converter upgrade if you have 150,000 or more on the tranny I would say replace it simply because I got 50k miles out of the upgrades and my clutch packs are just about smoked and it wasnt Goerends parts tho... and why I would say there the best its a six hour drive from here to there and here in my town of 20k ppl anyone driving a hopped up auto dodge cummins has a Goerend tranny including three local napa guys and a cpl sled pullers and were close to 500 miles away and that just the people I know and thats why if mine stays auto it will be a Goerend transmission and you can bet I will replace everything in my transmission system new coolers and lines if it had old sludge fluid in it its going in the trash its the only I figured I could make it last :thumb1: hope this helped I'll let you know what the Dodge service manual says Thought I'd add I didnt see the question reguarding the check valve previously and I think were talking about the same one... I'll dig it up but I mentioned in a prior post that you can do this and install a line in its place the valve just keeps the fluid in the tourque conveter in park and it will stick causing over heating while driving it should be on the low pressure return side I'll do som digging mine has been removed for three years now and when I change my fluid I can get between 10 and 12 quarts out... unheard of by some :lmao: hope this helped I'll post the info as I find it I'm still recovering from the accident so it may take a day for me to find it at least im finally off crutches :thumb1:

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Be aware that transfer case is heavy and to drain the fluid before you pull it off... Could get rather messy...:lol:

that was the single hardest/heaviest part of the 4l60e job we rebuilt. that thing is HEAVY and packed into a small space. when we did that job we used a scissor style trans jack. the trans or transfer case wouldn't roll out on the jack(we didn't he the truck high enough). so we put cardboard down and put them on the cardboard, and slid the cardboard. oh...plan on buying a lot of fluid.:thumb1:

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Only remove the check ball if you are getting a VB with a "pump in park" mod done to it, you need to know what they do to the vb, if they just install a shift kit then you didn't gain pump in park nor increased flow ect. The big tranny shops do a lot of altering and modifying of the VB besides a shift kit. Other than that it will hurt nothing to keep it in there, if you remove it and don't have pump in park it will allow oil to drain back and when you start it and throw it in gear it will be sluggish for a few seconds until it builds pressure up in gear. If you install a new line with the temp port in it, it comes with a check ball in it also so you should either remove the one from the line or the one from the fitting going into the cooler either one but not both. Remove the t-case seperately and save the headache of wrestling them together. It is not too heavy by my standards and I always put them in and out by hand. I have done the trannies with and without removing the crossmember. If you choose to leave it in you need to remove the rear mount from the tranny completely and it will slide back and let the front down and slide it out. The Flex plate bolts are accessed through a cover on the front side of the flywjeel housing on the passenger side at about the 3 O clock position looking at it from back side.

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Only remove the check ball if you are getting a VB with a "pump in park" mod done to it, you need to know what they do to the vb, if they just install a shift kit then you didn't gain pump in park nor increased flow ect."

..

......

The Flex plate bolts are accessed through a cover on the front side of the flywjeel housing on the passenger side at about the 3 O clock position looking at it from back side.

Yeah - I have read that on some sites (pump in park) I will have to find out. All I know is its a shift kit together with new governor solenoid and electronics. I specificalyy asked about the governor solenoid as heard these can be an issue. If I decide to remove the check valve - both the one in the tranny cooler and the one in that part# you gave me for new hot tranny line - how do you get it out ?

I think I am going to try and use Michaels idea of the 4x2 and jack for the cross members. I know the guy I will be doing it with used a sledge last time - - this seems a bit better.

I had heard of two ways to get to the bolts for tq converter - 1 was through the inspection port at bottom of bellhousing - this is whats in the manuals and seems hard. Then like you mentioned - I had come across an article thats says another better 'port' on the passengers sides of the tranmission ...... I had a look and all I could see was a 2 1/2" inch plastic cap :shrug: next two a kinda thin plate of metal that has two screws on it - I think this is what your refering too (its about all thats there) - so I will take a photo and upload to be sure :)

Apart from draining the tranny pan - do/can you drain the transfer case and torque convertor of ATF4 prior to drop ??

---------- Post added at 04:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 AM ----------

oh - reread above - Michael already said to drain the transfer case :P

What about the torque converter ?

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What about the torque converter ?

The TQ Conv will stay with the trans as it comes out... Once on the ground and out from under the truck you can slide it off the input shaft and deal with it... Might dribble a bit...

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The TQ Conv will stay with the trans as it comes out... Once on the ground and out from under the truck you can slide it off the input shaft and deal with it... Might dribble a bit...

cool - wasn't sure if there was a way to drain it - as I figured all that weight will be sitting on the shaft once the convertor is dropped from flexplate. :p Yeah I might put my swiming togs on :)

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You ought to be able to get half the T/C drained by dropping the pan and leaving key on truck in neutral for twelve to twenty-four hours thats what I did when I removed mine as sugested by a friend and got at least twelve quarts out of my completly stock tranny and I did divorce my tranny and t-case its definately worth the few extra minutes I'd say 30 or less considering I already have a fake tooth from catching a wrench with my mouth so I didnt want to risk it :lmao:

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Yep the converter bolts are acessed through the tin cover with 2 screws. I have never seen one that you could get to through the bottom cover. As I said before leave the check ball in or you will have issues you probably won't like but to remove it is to just dig it out as it is just a rubber ball.

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I have never seen one that you could get to through the bottom cover.

I know thats how I got mine and it was in accordance with the book now I also say thank you to wild and free because if I had known about that plate it would have saved me at least a days worth of time and my wrench would not have been bent you have to tweek a box wrench not much but noticble to get them out my way which sucked :lol:

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YeahThe 2 books/manuals I have including the service manual say to do by the bottom inspection port. Which is WAY small.However looking at some threads on cumminforum I found exactly what W+F meant ...... and it looks a way better way of doing it.Whats the 2" black plastic CAP/screw that sits next to the metal plate cover (with 2 bolts) on the flex wheelhousing ? Does that come off too ? Looks like it was taken off this PIC (if its the same on this truck) - not sure why. I think the mtal plate covers the larger hole. And there is a plastic screw/cap that covers the smaller one.post-10132-138698165105_thumb.jpgAlso - lots of useful tips for taking it off - how about putting it back on ?? Making sure everything is aligned correctly etc ?

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The big one is to access the converter bolts and the smaller one is what the engine barring tool slips into for turning the engine over the proper way and not by the alternator pully nut, which I have had a war of words over on other threads on other forums.

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The big one is to access the converter bolts and the smaller one is what the engine barring tool slips into for turning the engine over the proper way and not by the alternator pully nut, which I have had a war of words over on other threads on other forums.

Ha You and the MM73 need to write up your own dodge tip/tricks/techniques manual and sell it through vendors/amazon :) Make a mint $$ Hey - while I am here - you never mentioned how to remove the check valve from that #part for the hot tranny cooler line - wassup with that !! :):thumbup2:

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Ha Hey - while I am here - you never mentioned how to remove the check valve from that #part for the hot tranny cooler line - wassup with that !! :):thumbup2:

Ah but I did you just need to back up a few posts to find my reply. it is just a rubber ball that pops out easily with a small screw driver or seal pick ect.

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Ah but I did you just need to back up a few posts to find my reply. it is just a rubber ball that pops out easily with a small screw driver or seal pick ect.

ok - you kinda did :) - I'll let it slide ......... this time :lmao2:

I said before leave the check ball in or you will have issues you probably won't like but to remove it is to just dig it out as it is just a rubber ball.

---------- Post added at 05:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 AM ----------

came across this - kinda interesting

"The ATF+4® Automatic Transmission Fluid formulation is exclusive to Chrysler LLC and ATF+4® is a registered trademark. The Center for Quality Assurance (CQA) monitors quality standards through each step in the fluid's progress from license through commercialization. Each blender and re-brander involved in the production and sale of ATF+4® must be licensed, facility accredited and undergo a range of product testing prior to final licensing. Licensed brand names are periodically market-sampled to ensure consistent quality."

http://www.centerforqa.com/licensedatf4brands.html

---------- Post added at 05:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 AM ----------

The initial tests of this VI improver in the

MS9602 test fluids were so remarkable that Chrysler modified the then-current ATF+2 spec (MS7176D) to include it. Thus ATF+3 (MS7176E) fluid was born; it remained the factory fill until ATF+4. [Lubrizol is still used in ATF+4 and is required in fluids licensed for compatibility.] In testing done during development of ATF+4, Chrysler noted the following viscosity loss from shearing for the following ATFs (20 hour KRL Shear Test):

Dexron III - 40% loss

Mercon V - 19% loss

Type 7176D - 32% loss

Type 7176E - 14% loss

Type 9602 - 10% loss <<=== ATF +4

You can see what a significant impact the new viscosity improver had on ATF+3 when you compare the 7176D and 7176E numbers. From the standpoint of viscosity loss alone you can see why Dexron III should not be used in transmissions that require ATF+3 or ATF+4. In terms of other basic performance parameters, ATF+3 (7176E) comes the closest to ATF+4, with Ford’s Mercon V a close second. [Which doesn’t mean that Mercon is acceptable.]

The goal in developing ATF+4 was to create a fluid that would match the performance characteristics of the current fluid (Type 7176D), but would retain those characteristics for at least 100,000 miles. The paper specifically notes that the anti-shudder properties of ATF+3 are usually degraded enough by 30,000 miles to cause noticeable shudder.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html

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The price for ATF4 makes the switch to Amsoil well worth it also as they are roughly the same price from what I have seen. I have switched many cummins over to amsoil ATF over the years do to the price of the recommended ATF4. :2cents:Just throwing it out there not trying to push anything here.:2cents:

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The price for ATF4 makes the switch to Amsoil well worth it also as they are roughly the same price from what I have seen. I have switched many cummins over to amsoil ATF over the years do to the price of the recommended ATF4.

:2cents:Just throwing it out there not trying to push anything here.:2cents:

thanks - after you posted this I was jumping around to read a bit on ATF4 and AMSOIL. Seems viscocity and other parameters are same or better. Plus recommended for ATF4 based applications also. Not that I fully understand that but assuming it 'should' last better/wear better under diff operating temps and frictions.

I did notice it comes it 2.5 gallons (I hate only being able to buy 1qt jugs) ...... nice

and even tho this was stated by a amsoil REP .... still kinda interesting:)

http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/v8/9656.html

I spoke with Amsoil Corporate and here are their comments:

"The AMSOIL ATF is far superior to an ATF blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. Secondly it uses a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.

Although the additive chemistry may be slightly different than the exclusive MOPAR fluid from the factory, it still follows suit with the parameters set forth by Daimler Chrysler. All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components."

"Further more, Chrysler developed the +4 spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. That is the sole reason why Chrysler recommends +4 fluid and this is why nobody offers a +4 fluid. On the other hand there are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers +4 specs, including AMSOIL !"

dunno - but interesting :cookoo: - thanks for the thought

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