Can a 99 run with no CKP

[dieseled]

99 ats auto , ddrp on frame w/ relay, mechanical fuel press , boost , egt , trans temp gauges ,75 hp injectors ,usually edge ez , but have a so3 also .

So been letting the truck set since beginning of the year , while out of state , with overhead camper on , in the CA Sierras thru po1689 , po1698 , po 380 , and po382,  had a code reader ,

Turbo bark , shut down ,on restart  erratic  idle wont gain rpms I guess in limp mode , long way from home no cell service , walked to a phone and called Cummins pacific in West Sac ,

Towed it there ,I had dealt with them years earlier with a cracked 53 block and buy parts there , only place that came to mind that I trust , and I figured I had a bad VP44 .

Come to find out they are not a franchise anymore and wont do any thing but the Cummins motor , wont even pull obd codes , I had to show them where the data port was and they had to rummage around to find a dongle to hook up with . They cant even have a factory manual , or access to the ecm files , they have to pull the off and put them on a replacement ecm

 

I took a shot went to Valley Injection , got a VP with a "new" board on it , they do have a bosch bench , had cummins put it on fingers crossed , no change . Ran worse , the tech dumped so much diesel priming it , he pressure washed the drivers side of the motor , that made me think maybe it was a contact somewhere , also days before I drove thru a foot of snow for about an hour ,

I had them test the new vp with a test box they had to find hadn't used it in years, I guess its the same as jumping the VP , Valley Inj said pump was ok if they tested it that way , assume the VP is good and now I have a spare , wasn't turning old one in for a core

 After a week in Cummins`s RV area in my camper waiting , I had it towed home to NV , 2 grand in towing and about 3 + grand in VP and Cummins bill , and it was winter temp in northern NV , I let it sit

Ive put a vp on myself in 07 and

did a ecm in 2016 that's why I have a so3 , to flash the ecm I bought from Cummins while RV fulltiming in remote Nevada when it lost the lift pump power and WTS , had high ripple ac , put on a denso hairpin alt ,  All was good until this break down

 

So time to fix it , yesterday started it up , have been starting it every few weeks in driveway , had cleared codes and had the battery's disconnected and would start and rev up ok , drove it down the block , it missed -hiccupped went into limp mode ,check eng light , idled home , restarted it ,dead tack running raspy everything else on the cluster was ok , shut it off, no restart

Ive been looking at what to do and have a list of things to check , I know what the codes represent , Ive seen the tests in the code article area here ,  mainly looking at the po1689

I today visually checked the ecm and vp plugs , will pin them out later , cracked inj lines at the block , no fuel , swapped wiper relay to inj pump relay , have new ones coming

It occurred to me about a month before breaking down ,after firing up after an oil change it hiccupped and thru a CKP code , Ive replaced them 3 times in 18 years  , I cleared it and have one under the rear seat with other spare parts , hasn't come back , but when searching forums came across a few where it was give that a 1689 code went away after CKP was replaced , so that was on my list , Ive had a vac seal leak for awhile ,have the repair kit haven done it yet , on the list, so the starter area is nice and dirty

 

I pulled the CKP and the contacts where corroded and filthy , looked closer and the harness end of the plug is missing the seal , I changed the CKP and CPS and some other sensors in 2016 when I did the ecm .and keep them as spares. The one I have as a spare is the one that came out its contacts are clean , so I guess I lost the seal when working on the truck in the gravel RV park , The CKP plug end faces up and without the seal forms a nice little catch basin

So I know its probably a long shot that the CKP is the problem , but it is one ,

Can the truck run with no contact , or extremely little to the CKP

And another issue is the corrugated seal , Assuming that's what is supposed to be on the harness end , like is on the map and other sensors . I already knew I needed the one on the data link triangle  plug , I lost it pulling my edge ez off in a hurry when at Cummins , they don't want to see those boxes, and have had no luck finding  one for it even at a yard, they want to sell the whole harness     Anyone ever found a source for the different sizes of those

 

If that doesn't fix it , not holding my breath ,I was going to start with the  Moparmans article tests for po1689 , I`m not really understanding having both the ECM and VP 44 ends of the harness disconnected and testing the given pins#`s  of the harness , is that right , the last test if failed - replace ecm

Was also going to do the re grounding of ecm and VP , reroute of alt + to pas battery , check all grounds ....

ripple ac is under .02 as of yesterday

Sorry this is so long    Thanks  ED

[2000Ram2500]

That is alot to read. You disconnect the vp and ecm so that you can check resistance between both ends and essentially your determining if the vp or ecm is even getting the signal its supposed to or is it shorting to ground or is the wire broken or is it a loose connection. Its a real pain i just went through it all yesterday. Pull the fuel filter off with the two 10mm screws holding it at the intake manifold so you can get to the allan screw for the ecm connector easier.

[dieseled]

Well I use the seal from an edge box map connection for the CKP, cleaned the CKP harness plug up , put in another CKP,

It fired right up , let it run  and thru po1689`s again

CEL

Was able to get more seals for map and the 99 style cummins bus  triangle  port from Edge , only had one and Quadzilla , cost me 35.00 for a harness with seals attached , a new truck side cummins bus port end that includes a seal , and a cap for it like I had before stupidly throwing it away

 

Moving to fuel canister yesterday the Fass blue fuel line that has been all cracked up , from the tank to the canister blew , so I had to order more and fashion temp a splice , anyone have this happen with 6 year old Fass line

 

Checked ground connections for vp and ecm  to pas batt , will re do that aft wards ,

Tested pins 7 and 6 on vp connector for bat voltage and ground , good

Tested resistance pin 2 vp  to  13 ecm  ,cumminns bus +      .2 ohms ,

`                                 `2 vp to ground , infinite

`                                  `1vp to  23 ecm  , cummins bus -  . 2 ohms

`                                  `1 vp to ground , infinite   = replace ECM

Cleaned ecm and vp plugs and greased also ground above starter

Restarted and ran ok ,cel , thru po 336 , bad CKP sender signal , no other codes , dead tac , and died

Been waiting for a no start condition , to hot wire the vp , did that , started right up at idle VP seems ok

Hooked harness back up

Cleared codes , restarted ran for about 5 min , CEL ,thru po336 and po1689   I shut it down cleared codes

Restarted good held rpm above 1500 for about 10 minutes ,  thru CEL , and holding the rpms at about 1800 it would drop to 1500 go back to 1800 drop to 1500 repeatedly , code po1689

 

So tomorrow I`ll check CKP sensor harness as per diagnostic article , but  I cant live scan

Kind of seems to point to my two and a half year old Cummins rebuilt ECM

Wondering if having a flooded CKP  plug fried that circuit and affected the Cummins bus in the ECM also

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by dieseled
NOT FINISED

[pepsi71ocean]

I have had issues with the fass for live developing cracks, ironically it started leaking a week before I managed to wrap my whole filling and harness around the front driveshaft.  

 

I replaced it with marine grade fuel line. Then I chased it with crinkle tubing.

[Mopar1973Man]

Time to ohm test wiring. 

 

For the P1689.

[dieseled]

mopar1973man I posted that I ohm tested cummins bus - data link pos and neg as per 1689 article here , I did all the tests in that article , at the end of it it produced a result of " replace ECM " , by the way where do all those articles come  from , I`m guessing a factory diagnostic manual  ?

 

The diagram you show I guess is out of a diif year FSM , I have the same diagram 99 is 8w-30-28

Ive  been studying all those for a while

 

 

I guess I could disconnect  the ground connections at the pas bat and check 6 at ip to 30- 49 at  ecm  then each to unwrapped s168 by alt and  s109 , I was waiting to re-wire the grounds and re -route the alt + wire as to not confuse the conditions until I got an idea of the problem , I have bought the stuff to do it ,I may do that now , by the way I think it was said the bolt on the gear case to tie the grounds to was a 5mm mine is a 6mm , maybe a year difference ?

My AC ripple is .017 as yesterday , can wait to see if can get lower

 

I have tested relay in pdc to 6 and 7 pins in ip plug and ordered some spare relays from rock auto which got here today

 

I haven't but could check

 8 ip to18 ecm and 4 ip to 34 ecm

And 5 ip to 33 ecm which interestingly Blue chip says to cut

Did hotwire the IP

But non of these are part of the article for po1689

Cheaper than just buying  a ecm though

 

Going to test CKP sensor wire harness to ecm since a po 336 showed up twice , but is not showing now , just po1689

Looking like since the seal on the CKP was not there and the harness plug comes down from the top into the CKP , water can fill the pin area of the CKP , causing short to the sensor ground pin to 5v pin and sensor to ecm return pin , maybe this caused the ecm to give out . Maybe not

 

Since I get a dead tach as part of this , unless its more than one issue I don't think this has any thing to do with the vp44 and I've had the same codes basically with 2 different pumps now   , could be wrong

 

Anyway I`ll be fooling with this until the end of the month , wont buy or send my ECM off till the end of the month

Just retired ,get income increase  with pension then

Planning on doing some other mods then too

 

Any other input  is appreciated

[dripley]

46 minutes ago, dieseled said:

by the way I think it was said the bolt on the gear case to tie the grounds to was a 5mm mine is a 6mm , maybe a year difference ?

Your the second member that had this issue. But I dont remember who or what year truck.

[Mopar1973Man]

5 hours ago, dieseled said:

by the way where do all those articles come  from , I`m guessing a factory diagnostic manual  ?

 

Yes. It's a service manual set I managed to hack off the internet long ago.

 

5 hours ago, dieseled said:

water can fill the pin area of the CKP , causing short to the sensor ground pin to 5v pin and sensor to ecm return pin

 

Without a tach signal, it will not run. That is how the ECM controls fuel amounts of the injection pump. If the idle speed is too low it will throttle up to meet the 800 RPM speed. 

[dieseled]

The time it thru CKP code it was dead tach , ran a few seconds and shut down , I read with no CKP signal it will run for 6 seconds on a preset ECM to IP fuel signal then looks for CKP to determine fueling

 

95% of the time I`ve thrown po1689 

 

The times its been in a no start condition its gone to dead tach and thrown a po1689 , theres been no fuel to the injectors

 

Well I tested every combination of the ground circuit from the spade connector at pas bat to IP #6 and ECM#30 and #49 all .2 ohms

 

And from   IP    TO   ECM   the remaining wires I hadn't previously tested that run ECM to IP

                 #8    TO   #18

                 #4    TO   #34

                 #5    TO   #33   all were .2 ohms end to end and , dry air in Nevada= low resistance I guess . And infinite to ground

 

Already tested from PDC to IP pos & neg

 

Did CKP po336 test minus the live scan parts , basically testing  for voltage at 5v wire .Was 4.99vdc and good ground at CKP harness end.

And resistance and short to ground of the 3 wires : pin A - 5V  ,    pin- B sensor ground  ,   pin C - CKP sensor signal

All were .2 ohms  ECM to CKP and  infinite resistance  to ground

 

Results of that say replace ECM , same as the tests for po1689 said , basically no wiring issues points to bad ECM

 

So unless someone has any other ideas I`ll probably go with a programed ECM from RAE Diesel,  on the list here

and they seem to know what their talking about

Probably will keep mine , send in for repair , then I`ll have a spare

          

 

 

[2000Ram2500]

22 hours ago, dripley said:

Your the second member that had this issue. But I dont remember who or what year truck.

 

I ran into this on my 2000. Bolt would thread in but did not feel "tight" at all. I ended up dropping the thing in the gravel and lost it so in a pinch i ended up using the stud thats already there for the harness. Been working since.

[dripley]

That makes 3. We might have found another difference in the updated gear case cover.