Started another inframe today

[Dieselfuture]

19 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

All I have to do to have the head off is loosen 38 head bolts

  

[Guest 04Mach1]

Welp... Got the head off and the deck of the block is so rusted around the water ports I don't even know if the block can be salvaged. Cylinders have scoring most likely due to broken rings caused by severe overheating. Now the customer is deciding whether to have me try to repair this engine or to just replace with a factory reman Volvo engine. I'm pushing for a factory reman for a liability factor. I let the customer know if he decides for me to try and repair the existing engine that there is no warranty. Expensive education when less than $200 in proper spec'd coolant would have probably avoided this repair all together. 

 

I always number bearing caps before removing with a paint pen.

 

Cylinder 1 liner scoring. The other 5 look the same.

 

Zoom in and see the rust scale on top of the deck around the coolant ports. Prestone  and/or  water definitely didn't agree with this engine. I can only imagine what the inside of the engine will look like when the liners are pulled.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

I can say without a doubt that was an abuse case.

 

Even with all my document and record keeping even with standard anti-freeze and creek water or well water my engine is nowhere near that. Am I using spec'ed coolant. (Current is NAPA coolant) Nope. Distilled water nope.  Nowhere even close to that kind of problem. The difference is I don't continue to run coolant forever which tend to create this issue. Block is still absolutely clean inside, I asked when my head was in the shop they didn't need to clean the coolant jacket at all. Spotless inside. 

 

 

Scale buildup is typically caused when the coolant is left in too long. The pH level of the coolant goes corrosive and the coolant starts eating everything it's touching. Like my 1996 Dodge had factory coolant in the truck when I bought it. It was already too old and was eating the metal thermostat housing. Yes this was spec'ed coolant from the manufacturer (Dodge).

 

 

Just like the pictures above that is corrosion damage from lack of pH control. Very old too.

 

I've kept my documentation rolling from start till now. Still clean!

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Guest 04Mach1]

12 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I can say without a doubt that was an abuse case.

 

Even with all my document and record keeping even with standard anti-freeze and creek water or well water my engine is nowhere near that. Am I using spec'ed coolant. (Current is NAPA coolant) Nope. Distilled water nope.  Nowhere even close to that kind of problem. The difference is I don't continue to run coolant forever which tend to create this issue. Block is still absolutely clean inside, I asked when my head was in the shop they didn't need to clean the coolant jacket at all. Spotless inside. 

 

 

Scale buildup is typically caused when the coolant is left in too long. The pH level of the coolant goes corrosive and the coolant starts eating everything it's touching. Like my 1996 Dodge had factory coolant in the truck when I bought it. It was already too old and was eating the metal thermostat housing. Yes this was spec'ed coolant from the manufacturer (Dodge).

 

 

Just like the pictures above that is corrosion damage from lack of pH control. Very old too.

 

I've kept my documentation rolling from start till now. Still clean!

 

 

 

Agreed that this Volvo engine is an abuse case.

 

I believe in routine coolant flushing also although with the Fleetgaurd ES Compleat I only flush mine every 3 years. I'm ashamed to admit that I have neglected the coolant in my Mustang though, it's a 2004 with 105,000 miles on the 32 valve all aluminum 4.6 V8 and still has the coolant it left the long gone Dearborn, Michigan assembly plant with in 2004 and zero top offs 

 

Communication on the rusty engine has been through the phone with the owner of the truck that is in Fresno, California and has a thick East Indian accent making it difficult to understand. He just so happened to show up at the shop today so I was able to communicate more clearly with him.  I learned today that the truck has had pure water in the cooling system for the past 3 years and the Prestone jugs in the sleeper are just to carry extra water to keep the leaking cooling system full. The HG leak finally became so severe that his driver couldn't make any miles before having to stop and add more water so he finally decided that it needed fixing.

 

He was wanting me to just put it back together with a new HG but old head. I refused. I told him at bare minimum I would remove pistons and install new rings because the scoring starting in the liners is indicative of broken rings then install the new head already at the shop. I'll give the liners a quick hone job to restore cross hatching since scoring can only be seen and not felt, nothing can be felt with a finger nail. I explained that there will be zero warranty though. After getting a quote together with additional labor and piston rings the owner decided to approve the repair and signed a waiver releasing CM Mechanical from liability if the engine fails, leaks coolant, or uses oil. He also paid the estimate quote in full with fresh crisp Benjamin's with the understanding that oil, oil filters, and coolant will be billed when the repair is complete. I have until Thursday to get the engine back together and running.

[Mopar1973Man]

8 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

I'm ashamed to admit that I have neglected the coolant in my Mustang though, it's a 2004 with 105,000 miles on the 32 valve all aluminum 4.6 V8 and still has the coolant it left the long gone Dearborn, Michigan assembly plant with in 2004 and zero top offs 

 

This is where your scale build is caused from.  Extending the coolant way beyond the service life. Not so much about specs but understanding the service life of the chemicals in the coolant and have it changed out BEFORE the chemicals and stabilizers are totally consumed. It's that simple. 

 

8 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

I learned today that the truck has had pure water in the cooling system for the past 3 years and the Prestone jugs in the sleeper are just to carry extra water to keep the leaking cooling system full.

 

Again now you running without any protection of a coolant and there is nothing to protect against water pH (corrosive nature of city water) or protecting from oxidation from the water. Again its about have the protection of the chemicals in the coolant to protect the engine. 

[Guest 04Mach1]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

This is where your scale build is caused from.  Extending the coolant way beyond the service life. Not so much about specs but understanding the service life of the chemicals in the coolant and have it changed out BEFORE the chemicals and stabilizers are totally consumed. It's that simple. 

 

 

Again now you running without any protection of a coolant and there is nothing to protect against water pH (corrosive nature of city water) or protecting from oxidation from the water. Again its about have the protection of the chemicals in the coolant to protect the engine. 

I know I've neglected the coolant in the Mustang. The car is a POS and has been since new so I just have never really cared about maintenance on this car.

 

In my Cummins trucks the coolant I use Fleetgaurd ES Compleat Ethylene Glycol which is a lifetime coolant and has a service life of 150,000 miles. I randomly test the coolant for pH, molybdate, and nitrites, by random I mean if the mood strikes me. The pH has always been 10 to 10.5 with the coolant I use which is what quality coolants are new out of the bottle. It depends on which engineer you talk to at Cummins as to whether molybdate or nitrites should be used in the ISB. I chose back in 2011 to run a coolant that is fully formulated with molybdate and nitrites. I change it out at 45k to 50k miles or 3 years.  I always fill and top off with premix 50/50 that is at the proper pH and have never had an issue with acidic coolant. So in theory I'm over maintaining the coolant in my trucks.

 

Next time I flush out the coolant in the 01 I'll likely go with Fleetgaurd ES Compleat NOAT coolant and extend my coolant flushing intervals to 5 years or more. I will only test pH with this coolant.

LT32599_09.pdf

Edited December 1, 2018 by 04Mach1

[Dieselfuture]

7 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

I always fill and top off with premix 50/50 that is at the proper pH and have never had an issue with acidic coolant.

So what happens if a guy mixes 60/40 or even 70/30 more coolant then water

[Guest 04Mach1]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

So what happens if a guy mixes 60/40 or even 70/30 more coolant then water

50 coolant and 50 water gives you a -30*F freeze point and about a 225*F boil point.

 

60 coolant 40 water gives you about a -50*F freeze point and 230*F boil point.

 

As far as I know with higher concentration of coolant the freeze point goes down and boil point goes up but comes at a cost of less heat transfer. Pure water will transfer heat better than a 50/50 mix but does nothing for corrosion protection or water pump lubrication.

[Dieselfuture]

12 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

As far as I know with higher concentration of coolant the freeze point goes down and boil point goes up but comes at a cost of less heat transfer. Pure water will transfer heat better than a 50/50 mix but does nothing for corrosion protection or water pump lubrication.

So other then freeze point no other side effects like ph imbalance with higher coolant dosage?

[Mopar1973Man]

Coolant is a strange animal can't base it strictly on mileage or time. It has to be both. Some people barely drive 3k a year. That would mean changing coolant every 33 years. Personally try not to run right up to the full limit of any coolant typical is risky. I rather be slightly early on flush and fill than late on coolant.

[Guest 04Mach1]

7 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

So other then freeze point no other side effects like ph imbalance with higher coolant dosage?

 

pH may be a little more alkaline with pure coolant. The Fleetgaurd ES Compleat Ethylene Glycol coolant I use is on the alkaline side with a pH of about 10 out of the bottle. The Fleetgaurd ES Compleat NOAT I will probably switch too next flush is about neutral with a pH of about 7 out of the bottle. Alkaline and neutral are is ok in a coolant system. Acidic coolant is bad and what is causing a lot of our members coolant leaks.

[Dieselfuture]

Ok, makes sense. I'm using same coolant you are now. I got a case left yet, 3 gallons, concentrate. Should be set for a while. 

[Guest 04Mach1]

Back to the Cat 6NZ. It took the owner a bit to save enough cash to do the Platinum inframe. I have until Monday to finish this engine as it's my last day at this shop and I am off to my new job in Colorado.

 

I got the pistons and liners pulled. I then cleaned up the block. The I got the main bearings rolled in and torqued, 190 ft. lbs + 120*. The 3/4 impact is your buddy when pulling degrees on a bolt that already tight as gnats ***. Mark the bolt head and impact until the bolt moved 2 flats.

 

 

 

 

This is why stop leak and silicone is bad to use on cooling systems... especially with oil coolers and EGR coolers. I actually beat the oil cooler on the floor a couple of times knocking a lot of the stop leak out before snapping this picture.

 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

I think that most people abuse and overuse silicone sealants. Our engines were put together without sealant for most of it. The only thing that is sealed with silicone is the gear case. 

[Dieselfuture]

20 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

 

I got the pistons and liners pulled. I then cleaned up the block. The I got the main bearings rolled in and torqued, 190 ft. lbs + 120*. The 3/4 impact is your buddy when pulling degrees on a bolt that already tight as gnats ***. Mark the bolt head and impact until the bolt moved 2 flats

 doesn't the impact motion affect how you tighten the bolt, as long as you moved it another 120 degrees you're fine.

Good luck with your move, how's your current shop taking it that you're moving.

[Guest 04Mach1]

2 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

 doesn't the impact motion affect how you tighten the bolt, as long as you moved it another 120 degrees you're fine.

Good luck with your move, how's your current shop taking it that you're moving.

I don't think the impact will affect the final tightness or clamping force of the bolt since were just twisting another 120* after the initial 190 ft. lb. torque with oiled threads and flange heads. Pretty much every heavy duty diesel mechanic will use an impact when turning a bolt a certain amount of degrees on things like head bolts, main bearing cap bolts, and rod bearing cap bolts unless they have the dough for a Torcup pnuematic torque wrench. 

 

This is a Torcup in action. They are about $4500 for the starting models. The model I want is the Raptor 1000 which is about $6400. 

 

 

Anyway I didn't get pictures of every assembly step but I got the head on today. I will probably have the 6NZ fired up tomorrow. Here's a pic of the purdy pistons and liners.

[Guest 04Mach1]

Well I found the Platinum kit is incomplete for o-rings. It's missing the 2 gaskets and 4 o-rings for the oil cooler and is also missing the 2 o-rings for the water pump. Hopefully I will see the missing parts tomorrow and atleast get to fire the engine. I just have to install the oil cooler, water pump, exhaust manifold, and turbo. It's the last day at the shop so what ever I don't get done will be handed off to somebody else in the shop.

 

Here's a picture of the shiny new head with a brand new cam.

[Guest 04Mach1]

I forgot a little update to the Volvo D13 I posted about earlier. I ended up installing new piston rings.

 

I got it put together and filled the coolant system up with 16 psi of shop air. The system held pressure so I went ahead and filled it up with 12 gallons of red NOAT coolant. Fired the engine up ran for about 5 minutes then shut down to top off engine oil and coolant. I then took it for a spin down old Route 66 to Bluewater Village which is about 8 miles from the shop. It had great power and all seemed well until about 2 miles from the shop on the way back and the engine started misfiring and losing power. I limped it back to the shop and saw coolant was low. After further inspection I found the EGR cooler crapped the bed by the exhaust gas side being full of coolant and was the source of coolant loss and misfiring. The shop is waiting for the customer to bring a new EGR cooler from California now.