Well, bad news post w-t mod.

[Exalted85]

So, as I feared, the truck is still struggling to maintain highway speeds with erratic engine load. Watch the video on 1080p..you can probably hear the truck revving and dropping, but even if not, you can watch the engine load on my obdii cell phone in the top left gauge (shout out to moparman for sending me his obdii gauge file a year ago) and you can see the needle all over the place trying to maintain speed. 0-52, 25-50, etc etc..it's revving hard, dropping, revving, dropping. She as it used to. 

 

 

One curious thing I noticed while doing all that electrical stuff..is there seems to be a random wire, probably #18, going from a body mount in the front, grounding on the body in the same spot as a probably #8 ground coming off the driver side negative battery terminal. First pic shows location, second, you can see it heading into the apps loom. (I didn't know how hot that black plastic tube got, so I put some spare loom around the battery negative and the #18 wire)

 

Is this little body mounted ground to tps factory? It doesn't feel seem like it. Could this be part of the problem? 

[Mopar1973Man]

Test for AC noise. 

 

[JAG1]

I don't know a whole lot, but I do know with your symptoms I would want to hook up the snap on computer screen that shows a graph on what the APPS is doing. However, since the factory APPS is cheaply built and some claim it's a dog gone Piece of fecal matter..... I would just go ahead and put on the Timbo Apps to further a step in the right direction for a reliable, better built truck. Timbo Apps is a must really. IMHO

 

Can you get us a pic of the 'odd' wire your talking about? I can compare it to both my trucks that way. Or describe in detail where its running?

Edited November 6, 2018 by JAG1

[dripley]

That odd wire sounds lome someone added aground to the TPS. I have read about folks doing that trying cure similar problems a good while back. A lot of those issues were most likely from to much AC as was the noise isolator for the tranny. A simple test as @Mopar1973Man mentions above would help to diagnose it.

 

 

[Exalted85]

I'll look into timbo..heard mixed reviews way back when. I saw my ac go as hug as 0.034 while warming up at 1100 rpm..averaged around 0.025..which is actually almost identical to what I remember it being before the wt mod. 

 

Do I need this little wire? I wanted to pull the apps cover off but will have to look into how..didn't have time with voter research. Could this little wire be causing grounding issues? That the wt should have fixed? 

[Mopar1973Man]

AC noise look OK. Kind of high for W-T ground wire mod. It should be closer to 10mV range your showing 34mV most likely as grid heaters hitting.

 

Gumbo is rock solid. No electronics and completely mechanical design. No voltage to set or adjust. Basically your setting the bellcrank angle when you install the timbo APPS. 

[dripley]

30 minutes ago, Exalted85 said:

 

Do I need this little wire? I wanted to pull the apps cover off but will have to look into how..didn't have time with voter research. Could this little wire be causing grounding issues? That the wt should have fixed? 

Did see a pic for the wire you speak of.

[Exalted85]

2 hours ago, dripley said:

Did see a pic for the wire you speak of.

Weird..it didn't post. Here we go. 

 

I'll probably buy a timbo. I was thinking the same thing, mopar..I was expecting lower..which makes me think it might be an issue elsewhere somehow, but I'll check it again after I get home. Oddly enough, cruise control worked fine on the way to work..which might suggest that it's the actual apps intermittently doing it's job right. 

 

Here's pictures of the little wire. I'm assuming I should be able to get rid of it when I replace the apps? 

 

Actually, maybe I'll try to remove the wire first and see what that does for me. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Sensor Ground is not the same as body ground. 

[Exalted85]

54 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Sensor Ground is not the same as body ground. 

Surry, electrically challenged. Is that a stock ground then?

[Mopar1973Man]

 

The red crimp is NOT factory. That one needs to be looked into.

[dripley]

Mine runs to the drivers bat-. That one is factory but it would appear I put a new ring terminal on it some time in the past. But it never ran to the TPS sensor. The green one I added. The other one is my AD ground.

[Exalted85]

I figured the red one was previous owners doing. I'm going to try to get bell housing off tonight and get rid of it. The alt on it was leaking ac when I got it, he was probably trying to fix the same issue I am. Hopefully the wt will fix it, and that addition won't be necessary anymore. 

[Mopar1973Man]

W-T ground mod just reduces the AC noise but bad alternator diodes create the noise. What it was the charge lead ran past the ground lead dumping the AC noise back in the ECM side and fouling the ECM tach sensor and such. 

 

I say to disconnect the alternator and go for a test drive. If the weirdness stops then you know its the alternator. 

 

As for APPS sensor the only way it will create that issue is if the rheostat is worn out in one spot. Typically you can see it on a live data tool and watch the TPS jump up and down rapidly. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Exalted85]

You were right about the noise..tested right now, averaged about 0.016..I did see it hit 0.02. It's a nation's alternator, probably 25k on it. 

 

Going to look into that ground and try to see if I can check voltage on apps and look for anything else that might look funny..but it's definitely looking like a timbo might be my next step. 

 

However, I have been getting a p0500 vehicle speed sensor code..just read that might be an issue too? I replaced the trans one recently, it was mucked up..had the rear diff replaced too at a shop during other work. I wanted to try to pull that to see if it had any collections on it..but was having a hard time getting it out a few weeks back.

[JAG1]

PO500 is just loss of traction code. I get that all the time going up my gravel road because its not a limited slip differential. probably about a 15% grade.

 

Don't forget to check the quality of the alternator ground thru the mounting bolt and Bracket. W-T says it's real important. Besides cleaning all contact surfaces to the mounting hardware I also ran a ground from the alternator housing to the passenger battery. IBMobile did the same on his. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by JAG1

[Exalted85]

So I found some weird stuff. Little black appears it goes straight into the apps loom..so it looks like they tried to rewire the apps ground wire to externally ground on the fender. If I had a terminal that size, I'd try to reterm it to see if that helped.

 

However, I found some other weird tap sites. One on a purple wire leading to passenger side bundle..and one behind the engine kinda.

 

Could these be contributors? Check out this video..I'm not exactly sure how to describe location. Any idea what these could have been for? 

 

 

1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

PO500 is just loss of traction code. I get that all the time going up my gravel road because its not a limited slip differential. probably about a 15% grade.

 

Don't forget to check the quality of the alternator ground thru the mounting bolt and Bracket. W-T says it's real important. Besides cleaning all contact surfaces to the mounting hardware I also ran a ground from the alternator housing to the passenger battery. IBMobile did the same on his. 

 

Alt case checks in at dead zero ohms..Looks good. I actually at one point did bare a appt spot on the housing and ground to battery..it didn't help :/ I've sense gotten rid of it..but my alt ac noise appears to be good. Check out the video above..I think I'm finding the problems. 

[JAG1]

Check integrity of the factory wires where the wire taps are. You might dig into the PO's work a little more and find other things. It's a good thing developing a sharp eye over your truck. Glad your finding more things.

[Exalted85]

 

Does anyone know what this tap is tapping, or what it could have been used for? 

Edited November 13, 2018 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

Ugh. That wiretap most like is a weak fuel solenoid connection. I would pull the VP44 off so you have good access and solder and shrink tube the wire back together. Those scotch locks need to be tossed in the trash. I hate those darn things. 

 

Stealth plate is the best option.