12V to 24V

[Heavyd1980]

does anyone know if the 12V will accept a 24V head?

[Mopar1973Man]

Kind of odd you hapen to mention this... ISX and myself were talking about this not to long ago. It's a assumed the 24V head would fit a 12V but other thing like pistons would have to change. I think the bowl of the piston is different on the 12V vs. 24V because of the angle of the injectors.

[Heavyd1980]

the reason I ask this question is because I have a major failure with 24V I put a new crank sensor in it this weekend after a CEL of P0336 come to find out when I took out the old sensor it was broke in two, so I drained the oil hoping that the other piece would evac come to find out there is a large piece of metal in the oil pan and I appears to be a piece of the reluctor ring. I have not yet removed the oil pan due to the length of the job this is my next task.

[Mopar1973Man]

Hmmm... Not to sound rude but what do these two have in common? (Head and Crank) I've having hard time following what you got up your sleeve. Could you explain your idea bit more... I would jack the engine slighly (engine hoist) and get the pan out and take a peek...

[Heavyd1980]

im sorry i do that quite often, i was planning on taking the oil pan off in the next couple of days but in the mean time i thought i would explore my options. i also have done alot of reading up on a p-pump swap so i thought this might be a good time to do so by finding a 12V and swapping my 24V upper end onto the block.

[Mopar1973Man]

Well if your going that far you better think about pull the engine out and putting it on engine stand and go from top to bottom.

[ISX]

deja vu

What I found from searching around is the 24V pistons have the bowl centered because the injectors are also centered. 12V injectors are off the side so the bowl is also off to the side. So you would need the 24V pistons.

The injection lines also need to be changed since mine go straight to the top of the injector, and they would have to go to the connector tubes instead. They make kits for all this though thanks to the 24V people swapping in p-pumps.

I think I read that the head bolts are different lengths on a 24V head, so you would have to make sure to get the 24V bolts.

That's about it. Simple but not exactly my kind of cheap.

[Heavyd1980]

thank you both for the help maybe i should go ahead with the original plan and just get the pan off and see whats going on in there.

[Mopar1973Man]

deja vu

That's about it. Simple but not exactly my kind of cheap.

In a previous thread I found a partial kit that had a price tag of ~$3K just for all the weird parts like injection tubes, brackets, gear housing, pump gear, etc. But this price tag did not include...

Injection pump, shut off solenoid, having the injector re-poped for the Ppump, different lift pump for 40-45 PSI, etc... I figure you can cross the $3K mark with all the other toyz...

[ISX]

Well that's why I don't see why they don't just buy a 12V and stick it in. There is a 215HP on craigslist here for $2200 right now that includes everything...Now putting a 24V head on a 12V would be different. I think you could do it under 1000, which is 10x more than I want to spend Especially when the only reason I want it is for idle EGT

[kameronk]

hey guys im gonna step in and say i have talked to a lot of sled pulling guys and mechine shop guys that say the 24v head flows alot more then the 12v head and that they have put 24v heads on 12vs and they ran fine but i dont think i would wanna go the other way. thats all just what i have been told never done research bout it so there is some more to chew on.

[Heavyd1980]

well here's an update finally got the oil pan off and found my tone ring in four pieces it looks like two of the bolts actually broke off in the crank and a couple of them backed out i think thats how it broke, called dodge they can get me another one for $140 dollars. does anyone know what the torque spec is for the tone ring? or is there a website or maint manual that i could go to or buy that would have all of this stuff in it. thanks for all the info and help this is truely a great place to gain a ton of knowledge!!!

[Mopar1973Man]

Well I sorry to say I checked over my books and didn't find anything about the tone ring torque specs... So if it was me I would torque it to the specs of the bolts capacity and use some locktite on it as well...

[Heavyd1980]

ok well thank you for your time i appreciate it. i will find out what size the bolt is and chase down that torque. thanks again.

[guesswho512]

ISX made a chart for torque values based on size and grade here's a link https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhHyLR2_DBOgdEN5TXExcGczWENKeTRIQlQ5bW9zR2c&hl=en&authkey=CMjhhewG

[Heavyd1980]

cool thank you for the help.

[Heavyd1980]

the truck was fired up just last night thanks to the help of White01. everything seemed to work just fine cleared the code and changed the oil after a couple of minutes of running. however did find two oil leaks at the back of the oil pan where the engine adapter mounts. so hopefully i can get that fixed and then start back with the tranny and t-case.

[Heavyd1980]

ok guys I have almost convinced myself to build a 24v 12v engine but I was wondering how does the 12v engine time? And also my airdog is preset at 15 psi so correct me if I'm wrong my airdog would have to either be replaced with an adjustable unit or if possible change the regulator spring because the 12v requires more psi right???

[ISX]

ok guys I have almost convinced myself to build a 24v 12v engine but I was wondering how does the 12v engine time? And also my airdog is preset at 15 psi so correct me if I'm wrong my airdog would have to either be replaced with an adjustable unit or if possible change the regulator spring because the 12v requires more psi right???

You have to get the injection pump timed with the engine by loosening the pump gear nut and getting the engine and pump to where they need to be. You can lock the pump with it's timing pin and lock the engine on TDC #1 compression with it's timing pin and that should get it pretty close to stock. I am seeing 45psi right now for fuel pressure. That is basically the absolute max you want to see. I would set it so it doesn't go over 40. It shouldn't drop under 25 under a load, ever, if it does, you need a higher volume pump or a new overflow valve.

[Heavyd1980]

ok thats good to know so no cranck sensors or cam sensors to go bad sweeet, so do you know if i would need to use the 24v cam or the 12v cam??? i do know that the crank, rods, and pistons will need to be used.... anything else that i am missing? what else electrically would be needed for the 12v thanks ISX for the info.