Ball joints and Control Arms, Suspension in general

[YeaImDylan]

Hello all!

 

Back again and I am trying to get opinions on what brand ball joints to use. Was gonna try proforged, believe they have a good warranty although they are 60 bucks per... Also am scared for any ball joint I end up going with being loose in the knuckle due to it being 20 years old etc.. And I can't afford having the truck down at my friend's to pull one out and measure the diameter. 

 

Now for control arms, I've heard talk of getting adjustable so you can improve the geometry as best as possible. Currently I believe I have stockers as well as a leveling kit and I get creeks and noises when going over bumps. I was going to just replace the bushing and sleeve but my friend who owns multiples of these trucks says sometimes its best to just get new arms due to not spending a ton of time burning out the bushings if you can't get them out easily..

 

Also, I'm assuming a solid brand for front hubs would be Timken? May replace those as well. Trying to get the truck good by possibly November to go across the country back home. Was also planning to put Bilstein 5100's on as well as a steering brace and new pitman arm since I believe the previous shop didn't torque things right and it is now damaged and coming loose.

[Mopar1973Man]

I did a set of AC Delco ball joints over 200k miles ago and still running on them at 460k miles and still tight.

 

(Personal opinion below here)

 

The leveling kit does require adjustable control arms being the thrust angle is now wrong. As you level the front axle your changing the caster angle and also as it is lifted the factory track bar is fixed length and pulls the axle to the driver's side. Need adjustable control arms and an adjustable track bar too. Wide tires tend to eat ball joints up pretty quickly being the leverage angle of the wider tires increases the stress on the ball joint hence the quicker failure rate. Sadly, even expensive ball joints will not last with wide tires and/or lift kits. Physics is in control at this point.

 

Doesn't matter what brand of ball joints or axle bearings you use it will fail quicker as long as the leveling kit and wide tires are used. It's the nature of the beast and the only way to fix the problem is to remove them and go back to stock. Yup, I know I'm still trying to get all the stuff pulled off Thor on my 2006 being the previous owner install wide tires and a 2-inch leveling kit and it's eating the front axle up and turning into a mess. No adjustable control arms or track bar so the thrust angle is still screwed up. Eating the tires up and wearing out ball joints and tie rod ends and already dumped $520 of wheel bearing in last summer. What I've done was bought a set of factory steel 17-inch wheels and go back to 265/70 R17 tires and now I got to get time to pull the leveling kit out so it doesn't look like a squatting truck taking a dump. 

 

Beast is all stock and everything last forever... Ball joint, tie rod ends, brakes, shocks, brakes, etc. 

 

Why do I know this stuff??? I had a 1972 Dodge Power Wagon (Old Blue) before Beast. I actually destroyed the front axle 12 different times with wider tires and lift kits. I only owned the truck for 120k miles and made it into junk in under 5 years. I blew up wheel joints constantly, ate wheel bearings all the time, and had to repack them monthly, steering absolutely sucked. Power steering gear boxes failed all the time. Then the power steering pumps wore out prematurely. I made a promise to my parents and myself that I would never do modifications that would cause this kind of damage. To date, my front axle suspension and steering are still factory tight and drive like a dream single finger at 80 MPH on Beast.

 

All I can say is understand the physics of what you are doing and why and you'll see why the failure rate is higher.

 

 

[LorenS]

Having replaced the control arms, I definitely suggest buying the whole arm. Also, go ahead and get the bolts if you can't have your truck down. Mine were rusted into the bushing sleeve and were destroyed during the removal process. I would like to get the kind with Currie Johnny Joints (or similar) but can't really justify the cost, even if I built them myself.

 

I used MOOG arms, they seem to be doing well over 50k miles later.

 

Hard to go wrong with Timken. I used the most expensive that NAPA had, and that was 75k miles ago.

[YeaImDylan]

On 2/5/2023 at 9:52 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

I did a set of AC Delco ball joints over 200k miles ago and still running on them at 460k miles and still tight.

 

(Personal opinion below here)

 

The leveling kit does require adjustable control arms being the thrust angle is now wrong. As you level the front axle your changing the caster angle and also as it is lifted the factory track bar is fixed length and pulls the axle to the driver's side. Need adjustable control arms and an adjustable track bar too. Wide tires tend to eat ball joints up pretty quickly being the leverage angle of the wider tires increases the stress on the ball joint hence the quicker failure rate. Sadly, even expensive ball joints will not last with wide tires and/or lift kits. Physics is in control at this point.

 

Doesn't matter what brand of ball joints or axle bearings you use it will fail quicker as long as the leveling kit and wide tires are used. It's the nature of the beast and the only way to fix the problem is to remove them and go back to stock. Yup, I know I'm still trying to get all the stuff pulled off Thor on my 2006 being the previous owner install wide tires and a 2-inch leveling kit and it's eating the front axle up and turning into a mess. No adjustable control arms or track bar so the thrust angle is still screwed up. Eating the tires up and wearing out ball joints and tie rod ends and already dumped $520 of wheel bearing in last summer. What I've done was bought a set of factory steel 17-inch wheels and go back to 265/70 R17 tires and now I got to get time to pull the leveling kit out so it doesn't look like a squatting truck taking a dump. 

 

Beast is all stock and everything last forever... Ball joint, tie rod ends, brakes, shocks, brakes, etc. 

 

Why do I know this stuff??? I had a 1972 Dodge Power Wagon (Old Blue) before Beast. I actually destroyed the front axle 12 different times with wider tires and lift kits. I only owned the truck for 120k miles and made it into junk in under 5 years. I blew up wheel joints constantly, ate wheel bearings all the time, and had to repack them monthly, steering absolutely sucked. Power steering gear boxes failed all the time. Then the power steering pumps wore out prematurely. I made a promise to my parents and myself that I would never do modifications that would cause this kind of damage. To date, my front axle suspension and steering are still factory tight and drive like a dream single finger at 80 MPH on Beast.

 

All I can say is understand the physics of what you are doing and why and you'll see why the failure rate is higher.

 

 

 

First off, thank you to both of you gentleman for providing some input! It's unfortunate to hear that with how I want my truck to look, I am going to suffer in terms of longevity to an extent.. I think I'll bite the bullet and get adjustable arms and an adjustable track bar. I don't believe the new track bar that was put on is adjustable to the areas needed to try and get back some geometrical integrity.. Debating on what adjustable ones to go with though as I don't want to spend 800.. As for ball joints, I may just go with MOOG or whatever since they probably won't be lasting 100k anyways.

 

Also @Mopar1973Man, how did you get AC Delco ball joints for our Dodge? I was trying to look into some parts on their site and with them being GM, I can't select our make and model etc... Did you just cross reference a part number and do it that way to get one that will fit?

 

@LorenS I will look into some NAPA parts! Especially for front hubs..

 

EDIT: Sorry for the delay in responding, life has been a bit busy lately.

 

On 2/6/2023 at 11:59 AM, LorenS said:

Having replaced the control arms, I definitely suggest buying the whole arm. Also, go ahead and get the bolts if you can't have your truck down. Mine were rusted into the bushing sleeve and were destroyed during the removal process. I would like to get the kind with Currie Johnny Joints (or similar) but can't really justify the cost, even if I built them myself.

 

I used MOOG arms, they seem to be doing well over 50k miles later.

 

Hard to go wrong with Timken. I used the most expensive that NAPA had, and that was 75k miles ago.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by YeaImDylan

[Mopar1973Man]

Just bought the cheapest ball joints off RockAuto and back then I knew Moog was no longer American made so I took ACDelco ball joints. Installed back at 180k miles to replace the factory Spicers. Currently I've got 460k miles so that's 280k miles on those ball joints. 

[Tex_usa]

My truck has a 2 inch lift and I would like to keep it.

I know on my 1500 with 3 inch lift it was constantly running through bearings and ball joints.

 

From what I have found EMF has a rebiuldable ball joint kit so you will at least not have to press the joints in and out every time.

 

Also for the track bar I am looking at the Thuren second gen track bar.

Essentially it converts it to a 3rd gen style adjustable track bar.

 

This leads me to my question.

I had used several wheel hubs on my 1500 and some lasted a few years while others failed in less than a month lol.

 

I had seen somewhere that you could convert to a rebiuldable locking wheel hub for the 2nd gen 2500.

I was wondering if anyone had this or if there is a better brand over others on the stock wheel hubs?

[Mopar1973Man]

Also, need a set of adjustable control arms too. The lift kit will pull the axle to the driver's side throwing off the thrust alignment. I currently have this issue on Thor where I'm pulling the 2-inch leveling kit out and returning to the stock rake. My problem is with the weight on the rear it looks to be squatting by about 2 inches. (Scaled weight 9,300 pounds). This is an all-steel flatbed and heavy tool boxes. If I was going to keep the lift I would have to do the adjustable track bar, adjustable control arms, and then a set of airbags in the rear to get the rake back. 

[Tex_usa]

@Mopar1973Man the adjustable control arms. 

Is that from the gear box to the passenger side knuckle and then to the driver side knuckle?

[hdpwipmonkey]

1 hour ago, Tex_usa said:

@Mopar1973Man the adjustable control arms. 

Is that from the gear box to the passenger side knuckle and then to the driver side knuckle?

control arms run from the axle to the frame one on the upper side of the axle and one on the lower side.  These are both on the left and right side.  In the picture below you can see a stock control arm in the upper position and an adjustable one in the lower.

[YeaImDylan]

I’m about to order parts now and not sure what to go with for the ball joints. I’d love some ACDelco but can’t seem to find any specifically for the truck. Could I just buy some that work with whatever front axle I have?

 

also with my leveling kit, I was told I’d be fine with stock arms and utilizing the caster adjuster on there. Friend had said you run into issues 3inches and above with the axle problems.

 

Thinking of getting timken front wheel bearings since I found a set on eBay for like 180 which is cheaper and probably better as well than the moog.. I’ll buy a rock auto pitman arm and nut set as well and then a kit to replace the gasket for the steering box sector shaft. Ordered new power stop brake pads and rotors for the front as well. Planning to replace all at once.

 

If someone can link me to control arms that are adjustable and won’t break the bank I’d love to put some on even tho the truck will not be going higher than the 2inch leveling kit.

 

Also will be buying bilstein 5100s for the front right now too.

[Tex_usa]

@hdpwipmonkey Thank you for the visual!

@YeaImDylan for the ball joints if you are keeping the offset wheels/tires and lift just get a brand that has a warranty and really look over them before installing.

 

When I did my 1500 the ball joints lasted a few years even with 35s and offset jeep wheels and the poor thing really did get abused as a ranch truck.

 

If you are going to be breaking everything down for ball joints though I would also recommend replacing the ujoints on the axle shafts.

I made the mistake of not doing this and then about 6 months later I was pulling everything back off to do this.

[YeaImDylan]

Yessir, I forgot to mention the axle u joints as well! Was planning to knock those out too. Thanks for the feedback in regards to the ball joints.

[Mopar1973Man]

6 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

Yessir, I forgot to mention the axle u joints as well! Was planning to knock those out too. Thanks for the feedback in regards to the ball joints.

 

Make things easy for you for the wheel joints. Just remove the shaft from both sides. Now take your hot knife and cut the trunion arms off. Let all that fall out including all the needle bearings. Now lightly heat the yoke ears up and punch the caps inward with a steel shaft and hammer. They will be super easy to bang out without damaging the yoke ears.