Pump code P0216 is gone, but now a slight intermittent engine flutter at idle

[01_Cummins_4x4]

On my 01 Cummins it only has code P0216. 

 

I turned off my Edge Comp box and cleared the code and test drove it. It was still lacking power when cold (not making boost), and it popped 0216 again. I wanted to rule out that the Comp Box maybe causing the issue. Would I need to actually unplug the Edge Comp box map sensor and plug the OEM harness to the map sensor and unplug the Edge tuner, instead of just turning it off, as a true bypass test to rule out the Edge Comp box causing the timing issue?

 

The previous owner did tell me that he ran it low on fuel pressure from the lift pump once and changed the fuel filters on the FASS 165. Lift pump pressure is 17 - 18 psi constantly, so I know the lift pump is working properly. There is no white smoke out the exhaust either. Once the truck warms up enough, it makes boost up to 43# no problem. I'm assuming that my electronics on my VP44 are shot on the GB Remanufactured Inj Pump from Xtreme Diesel Performance. I read that I could mildly heat up the electronics module on top of the VP44 with a heat gun when the truck is cold and then see if it will product boost pressure with the Edge Comp tuner working on it. If it makes boost in that test, then the electronic module on the VP44 is bad. 

 

 

Edited April 30 by 01_Cummins_4x4

[01_Cummins_4x4]

The previous owner always ran the Edge Comp box on level 4 or 5, so that's where I had it.

 

Tonight I decided to clear the code and turn it down to level 3 when the pickup was cooled off but not totally. It was not building boost and it still threw 0216. So I stopped and shut it off and cleared the code and set the Edge on level 2x2, and so far it hasn't thrown the 0216 code yet.

 

So, could this be a bad wire tap connection since it was defueling in levels 3x3, 4x4, and 5x5? Or maybe a problem with the Edge Comp Box?

Edited April 20 by 01_Cummins_4x4

[Tractorman]

20 hours ago, 01_Cummins_4x4 said:

Would I need to actually unplug the Edge Comp box map sensor and plug the OEM harness to the map sensor and unplug the Edge tuner, instead of just turning it off, as a true bypass test to rule out the Edge Comp box causing the timing issue?

 

Yes.  I recommend getting the tuner entirely out of the picture.  I would then drive the truck for several days to see if the code returns.  If it does, then you know you have a problem with the VP44. 

 

The P2016 code just means that a timing command has not been met and the engine goes to a derated power level.  It could be a mechanical failure with the timing piston inside the VP44 as well as an electronic failure in the PSG.  But, at this point it won't really matter.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Most likely not the Edge Comp. But yes unplug it all and retest and see if the code returns. 

 

Majority of P0216 codes are because the fuel lubricity is poor and the timing piston will sieze.

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I had already suspected the pump as being at fault, but the Edge Comp box has proven to cause certain drivability issues and certain error codes, so I wanted to be sure it was the pump before spending the money on a replacement one. 

 

I bypassed the Edge completely and it threw the code again instantly, which I thought it would do so anyway.

 

Which vendor has the best price on an Industrial Injection SO pump?

 

 

[Tractorman]

It hard to say which vendor has the best price.  For example, Thoroughbred Diesel sells a re-manufactured VP44 with the latest updates on internal parts and the pump is run for 4 hours on a test stand, but the PSG is re-manufactured.  The VP44 has a one-year warranty and sells for $1,100.

 

Thoroughbred Diesel also sells a re-manufactured VP44 with the same updates and testing, but the PSG is new.  The VP44 has a two-year warranty and sells for $1,450.

 

My recommendation is to make sure the re-manufactured VP44 is run and calibrated on a test stand and that the PSG is new. 

 

- John

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I was looking online and found Oregon Fuel Injection in Eugene OR has their own Bosch EPS815 test bench/stands to test their pumps. I can get their "wire tap" approved pump for $1,661 + $500 core. 

 

I think we need to add them to the vendor list that have their own certified Bosch 815 test facility. 

 

https://oregonfuelinjection.com/

 

Industrial Injection has a 2 yr warranty on their VP44 pumps, but they said they are on a 4-6 week delay for new orders.

 

 

[Tractorman]

Oregon Fuel Injection sounds like a good option.

 

You may want to check out Diesel Fuel Injection Services in Portland.  I have never purchased a VP44 injection pump from them, but I have done other business with them and I was treated well (also, a little closer to you than Eugene).  You can request an email quote from their website. 

 

Diesel Fuel Injection Services

8922 NE Vancouver Way

Portland, OR 97211

Phone: (503) 235-1947

 

- John

Edited April 23 by Tractorman

[jlwelding]

I have to say Diesel Auto Power really stepped up when I was having all that trouble thinking it was vp. I sent it back to them twice and they tested with out a question. Gave me a lot of help.

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I got an Oregon Fuel Injection pump and paid extra for it because it comes with the wire tap - tuner ok warranty. This pump comes with all the Bosch updates and the latest head assembly to handle the tuner or programmer being attached to it. 

 

I installed it last night and finished at midnight. Then this morning I adjusted the valves, and then changed the engine oil and filter. 

 

It runs great like normal again now. 

[Tractorman]

I bet it felt good to hear that engine fire up and run like it is supposed to, especially after working on it until midnight to get it done..

 

Good job!

 

- John

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I noticed yesterday that when I pulled into work, at idle the truck has a very slight flutter. It seems to drive normal down the road so far, as I haven't experienced any serious changes beside the slight flutter at idle speeds.

 

The Scan Gauge II was showing no MAP reading at all, but it was showing it like normal before. 

 

I checked and there are no CEL codes at all for anything right now. I unplugged the Edge Comp tuner and plugged the factory MAP sensor plug in, and still no reading. 

 

Is it possible for the MAP sensor to just quit all at once? 

Edited April 30 by 01_Cummins_4x4

[Tractorman]

From what I understand, there are no inputs at idle - the ECM takes over.  When the throttle is returned to idle, the "idle validation switch" takes over in the APPS sensor which switches to ECM only to control idle.  So, I don't think any sensors (good or bad) on the engine would be recognized by the ECM at idle.

 

Is it just the tachometer fluctuating, or do you hear the idle fluctuate, as well?

 

- John

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I decided to try and reset my Scan Gauge Il PID for the MAP sensor and now it's showing up again, and it's hovering around 28 at idle. 

 

RPM at idle is around 880rpm.

 

I just feel a slight flutter when the engine is idling, and there are no codes.

 

I changed the VP44 last Friday, and then adjusted the valves on Saturday - .010 for intake, and .020 for exhaust.

Edited April 30 by 01_Cummins_4x4

[Tractorman]

Could be related to your 150 hp injectors and the symptoms just showed up with your newly installed VP44.  Maybe nothing to worry about?

 

- John

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I've just never experienced this issue before in my other (3) 2nd gen Cummins, with the last one having 100hp injectors in it.

[Tractorman]

Just out of curiosity, do you feel the slight flutter, with transmission in "Drive" at idle, or in "Park" at idle?

 

- John

[01_Cummins_4x4]

I feel it in Park. I'll have to check it tomorrow morning to see if I feel it in Drive.

 

I don't see any wetness around any of the fuel lines to the delivery tubes to suspect an issue there. 

 

Since I only bled #1, #3, and #4, could there be a chance of air trapped in one of #2, #5, and #6 delivery tubes/injectors? I'd of thought it'd have worked itself out after running it a while after the initial startup.

[Tractorman]

38 minutes ago, 01_Cummins_4x4 said:

Since I only bled #1, #3, and #4, could there be a chance of air trapped in one of #2, #5, and #6 delivery tubes/injectors?

 

No chance of that.  Those remaining injectors bled themselves of air long before you even pulled out of the driveway.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

How many miles on the injectors? Idle at 880 RPM is high and a sign of wore out injectors.