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2500ctd

Torque management

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2500ctd

First off hey all! First post and coming over from CR. Seems to be the more techy minds here. Ok my question is with tm and the smarty. Hopefully I can explain in words what's going on in my mind. Best way for me to describe smarty is it seems to shorten the pedal distance for the ECM to determine wot. My concern is with the auto trannies. Being that more power/tq is produced at less pedal movement, would the tranny not suffer from less tv pressure meaning less line pressure and lower clutch holding ability? The first years of 24v did not have tm so how did the transmissions deal with this? Is the bellcrank for the tv cable different or the lever on the tranny indexed different or is the vb valved different? I am running my smarty on 3 with the tm at 3 because of this. Just changing the tm levels the tranny shift points do change. Any ideas or am I off my rocker? Sorry for the long first post.

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Mopar1973Man

Well I can help with part of that... The smarty tends to reduce the TQ Management on these trucks. In other words on a stock turn its impossible to reach WOT at low rolling speeds. So the Smarty alway for more throttle at low road speeds. Once the truck make about 20-25 MPH then the TQ management is removed. Then you have a full range of throttle. TQ Management was created to reduce the stress on driveline components but the Smart is basically over riding it. So becareful the Dodge Auot Trans is very weak... Now as for the trans I'll hand that off to one of the other guys here since I'm a manual guy...

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AH64ID

Like mike said TQ management limits the power the enigne can make below a certain speed. Like my 05 is rated for 610 ft/lbs of tq, but below that magic number (I think its in the 30+ range on HPCR's) the tq is only 440 or less. But you really aren't missing it as the gearing of lower gears more than makes up for it. But by reducing tq management you get more bottom end power and the truck drives better, but yes its hard on the drive train, as the trans will multiply the tq. The two main reasons for it are drivetrain stress and driveability. Granny couldn't control 610 ft/lbs being multiplied thru a 1st gear and a tq converter, she would be sideways at every stoplight.

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white01

i leave the tor.man. on smarty on stock..i turned up once ..i dont remember what number..it was very violant and it wants to ..we will just say run!:drool:this is with stock turbo stock stix stock auto..dont remember what i had the juice on.:drool: mr. Wagner said the higher the number the higher the stress on tranny

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Mopar1973Man

i leave the tor.man. on smarty on stock..i turned up once ..i dont remember what number..it was very violant and it wants to ..we will just say run!:drool:this is with stock turbo stock stix stock auto..dont remember what i had the juice on.:drool:mr. Wagner said the higher the number the higher the stress on tranny

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2500ctd

I understand how tm works. In a thread on CR iirc "best year to own" it was mentioned that 98.5/99 had no tm from the factory. Are those how are those trannys able to handle that. Were they the 47re or rh? Guess I am thinking if the tm is decreased it will act like the old style 727 when the throttle linkage came disconnected except for the early shifting part. Trying to under the effects of reducing tm on trucks equipped with it from a transmission point of view.

--- Update to the previous post...

Another question are the trannys with no tm different than the trannys with tm?

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Wild and Free

The way around what you are getting at and you are correct by the way on the lower pressures when the throttle isn't depressed as far with a smarty is to install a BD pressure lock. Some guys zip tie the tv linkage on the tranny back a bit "drag racers do this trick all the time" But they zip tie it back about all the way for max pressure a low rpm boosting for maximum internal tranny pressures.

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volkswagon

The way around what you are getting at and you are correct by the way on the lower pressures when the throttle isn't depressed as far with a smarty is to install a BD pressure lock. Some guys zip tie the tv linkage on the tranny back a bit "drag racers do this trick all the time" But they zip tie it back about all the way for max pressure a low rpm boosting for maximum internal tranny pressures.

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Wild and Free

Why is this limited to drag racers? I guess I don't quite understand how this stuff all works so I don't know why the common guy can't do it too and then you don't have to buy the BD pressure lock:shrug:

Because it causes shifting issues if it stays at full pressure. It will cause hard down shifts and can cause delayed upshifts in normal driving situations.

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dually

First question Yes.2nd, The trannys fryed.3rd, i dont think so.Last statement yes it will change shift points.I have a manual valve body in my truck.I have a edge drag/smarty.My truck does not like 4 catcher.I dont like 8 catcher.We both seem to like 4 catcher.I play with tm on mine.When i am at the track the tm shuts off my fueling out of the hole.Even with the smarty.Now the list for mine is, speed limiter is 150.Tm is 6.Injection timing 3.Duration 3.I have a built tranny and wish my year diddnt have tm at all.I ran a rad box for a wile i hate it.It removed 100% of tm but killed the gauges that i need to race along with check engine light on.And you have to cut in the wire harness not a real big deal.I have a new harness now and it is factory with no splices.

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2500ctd

Cool. With my tranny and tq mgnt back to stock levels the shift points are high. Well I guess normal at. About 2k normal driving. I like the tq on 3. Shifts around 1500 with my style driving. I wanted to see about putting the vb or at least the tv pressure control items from a non torque managed truck into mine. On a 67 coronet I had the tv linkage come off and I had no idea what was wrong. I took it out and rebuilt it in the hobby shop on base. Lol I definitely know about that dam linkage now. Especially after the rebuild I still didn't hook it up. Found it the next day and wow. That thing burned me good. Lol

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dually

I dont think The tv cable and the tm are linked.I could be wrong.The way i see it is the ecm /pcm along with input from the vp pump work the tm.

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2500ctd

I dont think they are directly linked as well. Just want the non tq linited truck tranny stuff that way I can run the tq on min levels (least tq managment) on the smarty without having to worry about shortening the clutches and bands' life in the tranny.

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Wild and Free

I dont think The tv cable and the tm are linked.I could be wrong.The way i see it is the ecm /pcm along with input from the vp pump work the tm.

I dont think they are directly linked as well. Just want the non tq linited truck tranny stuff that way I can run the tq on min levels (least tq managment) on the smarty without having to worry about shortening the clutches and bands' life in the tranny.

They are in direct relationship once the smarty is thrown into the mix because smarty shortens the throttle pedal travel needed for driving versus no smarty and the TV cable is directly mechanically connected to the throttle pedal linkage at the vp44. Thus once the throttle throw is shortened the tranny pressure is in return lessened because of the lesser throttle pedal movement thus lowering the tranny pressures at the crucial time when smarty is pulling hard. Clear as mud?:ahhh: Plus as far as I know there is no difference in the valvebodies or any other tranny parts, you need to remember that the non tq management rigs are older and came from the factory with less HP TQ than the newer rigs.

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guesswho512

are you gents saying that the 98.5-99 24valve doesn't have torque man? i think the only electrical plug on my manual trans is for the reverse lights. how would the ecm.pcm know what gear i am in? how would larger/smaller tires or different ring and pinion effect torque man?

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dually

Thats how i understand it.I think the pcm knows just the same way my 01 does.Ecm/pcm, apps and sensors input. I am sure in a small way with different gears or tire size the sensor input would be different.With a small change 355 to 411 gears (600 rpm difference)I think it would be a small change if any.Just an example,now if you put 33 or 35 inch tires on and then 355 to 411 that would make it almost back to stock thinking in the computers.So therefore no change at all in tm or the way the computer reads the sensors.

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2500ctd

are you gents saying that the 98.5-99 24valve doesn't have torque man? i think the only electrical plug on my manual trans is for the reverse lights. how would the ecm.pcm know what gear i am in? how would larger/smaller tires or different ring and pinion effect torque man?

TM olny applies to auto. Your TM is your right foot and or a slipping clutch. :) That ix the one thing I dont like about the Smarty is that it shortens the overall pedal travel. Well electrically no physically. I have mine on 3 just because of the feel. I have good tranny just dont want to kill it from low line pressure/tv pressure. I was hoping the TV lever might have been keyed different because of no TM. Or actually they would have probably keyed the newer trucks with tm different. If they did at all. So it is something we are stuck with it seems. :duh:

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Wild and Free

TM olny applies to auto. Your TM is your right foot and or a slipping clutch. :):duh:

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Wild and Free

so the 98.5-99s do or don't have TM?

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2500ctd

NOT!!!!:banghead: TM works by looking for wheel speed if it doesn't see any wheel speed the ecm will not let the vp44 fuel over a preset limit. Thus limiting boost thus limiting torque. Its not that complicated but it does apply to manuals just the same as it does autos. It is an engine ecm perameter and not a tranny pcm parameter, it is designed to save and prevent damage to the trannies and drivetrain. :smart:

Oops. Was always told manuals didnt have it. Only to save the autos.

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Mopar1973Man

NOT!!!!:banghead: TM works by looking for wheel speed if it doesn't see any wheel speed the ecm will not let the vp44 fuel over a preset limit. Thus limiting boost thus limiting torque. Its not that complicated but it does apply to manuals just the same as it does autos. It is an engine ecm perameter and not a tranny pcm parameter, it is designed to save and prevent damage to the trannies and drivetrain. :smart:

Correct is applies to both automatics and manuals trannies...

so the 98.5-99s do or don't have TM?

Hmmm... I'm not sure but I'm going to assume it does...

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Prowelder

I will say this, when I had the Smarty in mine for a little while, I set it do the TM was practically off.... Beastly is all I will say!!!!:drool::drool:

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Wild and Free

I will say this, when I had the Smarty in mine for a little while, I set it do the TM was practically off.... Beastly is all I will say!!!!:drool::drool:

And to think the Smarty only lessens the effect of TM, it doesn't turn it off like the BD Rad box or the Blue Chip Redline box.

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